Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

In Swedish telephone directories there used to be a section entitled "Om kriget kommer" (If there's war). Prominent among it was the phrase:

> Varje meddelande att motsåndet ska uppges är falskt.

(Every message stating that resistance has ceased is false).

No doubt something similar is stated in Ukraine.

https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-f...



I'm Swedish and I've always loved this phrase. It's short and concise, and it stirs something inside you even if you're mostly devoid of nationalistic tendencies.

The continuation of the phrase mentioned later in the same pamphlet is also nice:

SV: Motstånd skall göras ständigt och i alla lägen.

EN: Resistance shall be made constantly and in all situations.

It also mentions the classic "En svensk tiger" (lit. "A Swede stays silent") illustrated by a tiger in the Swedish colors since the word has double meaning in Swedish.

Minor nitpick, the correct translation isn't "resistance has ceased" but "resistance shall cease".


> Minor nitpick, the correct translation isn't "resistance has ceased" but "resistance shall cease".

Du har rätt :)

I quoted and translated from memory, then googled for the correct quote.

The current statement is:

> Om Sverige blir angripet av ett annat land kommer vi aldrig att ge upp. Alla uppgifter om att motståndet ska upphöra är falska.


Fellow swede, same here. It always makes me think of these guys:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout

Last confirmed holdout in 1974, almost 30 years after ww2 ended for Japan.


Good mottoes to adopt for FLOSS.




That was a fascinating read. I did my military service in Sweden in 2010 and one of the quotes I remember most clearly from my commanding officers was "Hesitation kills" ("Tvekan dödar" in swedish), and that seems to be a direct heritage of the doctrine outlined in the article.


Whats is that thing the blonde soldier is holding? Brightness meter? A nokia proto-smartphone?


Might just be a pen. If the object would have the width of a smartphone, the soldier wouldn't be able to wrap her ringfinger around like in the picture.


Well the with is nearly like the length of her finger, and she has some color-table in her hand, maybe some infrared meter?


That's probably not the width of the object: It's a smartphone seen edge-on, so your "width" is actually the thickness. Well, mostly; the left half of what we see of it is probably (judging from the differing shades of black) a foreshortened view of the back of it, and the right part the edge. It has the rounded-rectangle look of an iPhone; did they have a single camera lens in the upper left (head-on) / right (from the user's side) corner with a silver-ish border around it?


She's taking a picture with her phone...

The caption implies that this is from 1993, but it's a much more recent crop of cadets on a visit to Vares later.


> The caption implies that this is from 1993,

Not necessarily. Here it is:

> Cadets view the sign on the Nordbat 2 school in Vareš and testify of the city's appreciation of the Swedish UN Federation's efforts in autumn 1993. (Johan Nordén/Försvarsmakten)

That must be intended to say the appreciated efforts took place in autumn 1993. But yeah, somewhat ambiguous.

> but it's a much more recent crop of cadets on a visit to Vares later.

Kind of a pilgrimage? If the pic was relatively recent at the time of that blog post (September 2017), many (most?) of those cadets probably hadn't even been born in 1993.


Ha thanks for the clarification, but it's a bit too late i already started a article for Vice that time travelers exist ;)


Good thing WP has a link to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_book entry in that article; a lot of people nowadays probably don't know WTF that is...

I'm not middle-aged, I'm from the Middle Ages.

(Works better in Swedish: Jag är inte medelålders, jag är medeltida.)



Interesting!

By the way, I'm curious about the word "uppges". After running the sentence both through DeepL.com and Google Translate they seem to return the translation "Any message that the resistance should be stated is false" (though DeepL does list "abandoned" and "quit" among many options in the translation result dropdown). Also, after checking out Wiktionary [0]. I see it only lists "to give as a fact; to state" as a translation for the verb.

This is the first time DeepL has failed me in providing a reasonable translation on the first try. Is this usage of "uppges" to mean something analogous to "cease" very rare or old fashioned, and somehow missing from Wiktionary? Would the meaning of that sentence be unambiguous to any native Swede even if they had never seen that message before?

[0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/uppge


"Uppge" is tricky because normally the way the word is used today, it means to give information, but in this case it's a way of throwing around the verb phrase "ge upp" (lit. 'give up', mentioned further down on Wiktionary), which means quite exactly to surrender.

The text is from the 60's and it shows in exactly the type of language used.


As others have said, "skall uppges" is just the passive future-tense form of "att ge upp" ("to give up" --> "shall be given up"). Someone said the text was written in the 1960s. I'm not sure about that, but I do know it was continuously re-published throughout the 1980s... And already, the usage is unfamiliar to current dictionaries and translation resources! In a few decades more, it will be as gobbledy-gook to (then-)current Swedish-speakers as stuff from the 1940s is now.

This is why we "linguistic prescriptivists" fight our lonely rearguard action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30712765


in this context it means "to give up".

> Varje meddelande att motsåndet ska uppges är falskt.

a more direct translation: "Every message that resistence should be given up is false"


The current pamphlet is available in English, and the new text is on page 12 as printed (page 7 digitally): https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/28706.pdf

> If Sweden is attacked by another country, we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.


> In Swedish telephone directories there used to be a section entitled "Om kriget kommer" (If there's war).

I love this, as in California the phone directories all had a section about what to do in an earthquake and other emergency. Local knowledge for local situations.

The reason was that in those days the telephone book was the only book you could guarantee would be in every house (the unstated reason was that it was the only thing a government could use to push a message into every house -- even in the US where the phone system was nominally private, the government exerted significant pressure on their operations).

I wonder how many people even knew that section existed, much less consulted it.


> I wonder how many people even knew that section existed, much less consulted it.

The Californian one on earthquakes? No idea. But the Swedish one on war: Pretty much everybody certainly knew of it, and probably most had at least cursorily perused it.


An updated version of that section in the form of a booklet was distributed to every household a few years ago, the advice is mostly the same.

Stay Alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!

(OK, that last one came from somewhere else).


"Stay Alert! Trust no one! Keep your laser handy!" is a quote from Paranoia, the role-playing game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)


“Trust no one” is not what the newer or the older version of the pamphlet suggests, rather it quite correctly points out that during wartime the amount of misinformation can be expected to be massive, so you should be extra vigilant in verifying the source of the information. Trusting “no one” would imply a complete free-for-all which is hardly conducive to an effective defensive strategy.


> Trusting “no one” would imply a complete free-for-all which is hardly conducive to an effective defensive strategy.

Which is exactly why RT and its American (and other) repeaters are so insiduous.


The Computer wants you to be happy. If you are not happy, you may be used as reactor shielding. The Computer is crazy. The Computer is happy. The Computer will help you become happy. This will drive you crazy.


You missed the reference [1].

The Computer is your friend.

[1] https://wikiless.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)?lang=...


"Thank you, Computer." *ZAP* "YOU DID NOT SAY THANK YOU FRIEND COMPUTER."


Out of curiosity: with very limited knowledge of the language I would have translated "ska" as "will" or probably better "should" (in the sense of "if someone tells you you should give up resisting, it's false").

Is this a usage of ska I haven't learned?


Not sure I grasp your question really. In this sense, the form you use is correct.

Do note however that Swedish is famous for multiple meanings of words.

The verb "ska" (short form of "skola"), has at least 5 meanings.

1. will do <something>: "jag ska bara äta först"

2. (conditionals), something could happen: "om du hade pengar, skulle du ha råd med en iphone"

3. (enforcing rules): "man ska inte slå sina barn"

4. (signaling intention): "jag ska åka på semester"

5. (communicating an statement, not nessecarily truthful): "han ska vara välhängd"


Thanks! I was just unsure because the translation above seemed to stress the past, "resistance has ended".


That’s because the translation is incorrect as I mentioned in one of my other comments :)




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: