Most of whom? I came up in JS on the client-side. Nothing has been more frustrating over the years than watching all of the inflexible bloat and tightly coupled BS people have been piling on to the client-side in order to pretend it was something that it is not. Web forms sucked ass. Everything Java tried to do to pretend the client-side wasn't there has left massive legacy potholes all over the web. Just deal with the thing as it is already and learn something new. You're a programmer for chrissakes. I might indulge in writing OS apps with webkit but I don't try to add a server to the process if it's just a local desktop app in order to make it more like what I'm used to. HTML, CSS and JS properly applied are doing 4/5ths of what these frameworks are pointlessly reinventing. All you have to do is learn them properly. The rest, keeping data loosely coupled, is basic 'duh' OOP. All the stuff that's already there works surprisingly well if you actually give it a chance. Or have you not noticed that web technology solutions are spreading like wildfire into other domains or that we can implement and modify GUIs using client-side-web-technology a lot faster than desktop OS UI developers have ever been able to? FFS, they don't deliver on that desire because it's proven time and time again to be a complete waste of time to try to.