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what is it they’re so concerned about people talking about these days exactly anyway?


The usual stuff.

- members of opposition of the wrong kind (as defined by incumbent);

- journalists investigating the government;

(if the incumbent is brazen enough, those above can be and already are selectively targeted with paid exploits)

- political opponents of the wrong kind (aka the extrimists, which kinda overlaps with #1);

- actual enemy combatants (aka the terrorists), spys and traitors;

- organized crime of the day with unwarranted delusions of grandeur (R. Taghi, his antics and aspirations to kill the Dutch PM);

- immigrants and immigrants to be of the wrong kind and people who smuggle them;


Gotta make sure you aren’t saying the wrong things, like criticising rich and powerful people.


people have been doing that for a long time, but the level of urgency from the system hasn’t been at this level.


It's the establishment putting measures in place to entrench their position with an uncertain future coming towards us, fast. They are setting up systems to prevent revolution.


Yeah but was it to the same extent? People are regularly posting guillotines these days and our economic outlooks for much of the world, and especially the US, is not all roses and sunshine.


The urgency comes from having the actual war on the East side of the EU and whatever the hell is happening down South with refugees and what not. Then in the EU proper -- sabotage acts, ammunition dumps being blown up, cabels cut and drones flying above the military bases hosting nuclear fucking warheads, Chinese and r===an spyies in the parliament, armed nazis in the military, etc, etc.

The shit has hit the fan about a decade ago already and not calming down at all, but intelligence gathering capability of secret services of all EU countries are being continiously degraded, because everything is E2E by default and money flows are obscured too.

Nobody likes to see shit being on fire and having all the dashboards down.

Another happening happens, the services are asked why they didn't prevent it or report it being likely -- what do they answer? "We can't read the damn messages, so we can't know if there is a cell that plans to do it again".


It's because they have finally found the perfect trojan horse—"think of the children!"—in a time when people are too busy entertaining themselves to death.

This is their best chance for them to enact mass surveillance, before the hoi polloi crack and finally get out of their couches.


That they're so damn tired being milked and oppressed by the organized crime groups calling themselves governments, maybe?


That strain of libertarian rhetoric is overwhelmingly encountered on American-dominated fora. I won’t say it doesn’t exist in Europe, since Europeans can pick up on American internet culture, too, but it is too marginal in Europe to affect politics much. There is no significant libertarian party in the EU. Some of the far-right parties stoking and benefiting from popular discontent even promise to uphold the welfare state, but simply deny it to immigrants.


Half of Europe has living memories of oppressive governments, from fascism in Franco's Spain to communism in East Europe.


Must be why they're so itching to get it back


[dead]


Perhaps, or perhaps not, but its now a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship.


Cool, but it's anything but libertarian, which is what we were discussing in this thread.

Regarding democracy, we have pretty severe failings, which you won't hear about because the EU is busy with Poland/Hungary/other conservative countries.


It isn't specifically "libertarian" to accuse some governmental systems as being criminal.


Are you aware that anti-big-government and pro-privacy political philosophy is not limited to (the joke that is) American right-libertarianism?


Not as a major political force to which Denmark’s Chat Control could be responding as the OP claims. Moreover, expressions like “milked and oppressed” ring American libertarianism to the ears of this European poster who is familiar with long years of European cypherpunk activism.


Cypherpunk activism is closer to anarchist ideals, and criticism of the State and its coercive power is central to its ethos. Yes, citizens are being milked and oppressed against a state and a political caste that has grown too powerful.

American right-libertarianism is a joke that originally started as an anarchist branch and has degenerated into getting in bed with the state to further its selfish ideals. Criticism of the state has nothing to do with those posers, as their goal is solely to become the state (i.e. the oppressor), rather than truly pursue the ideal of a free society.




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