My concerns:

1. Deliverability. Email marketing providers like MailChimp charge a premium because they have highly trustworthy send addresses and IPs that email servers can trust. The BYO SMTP aspect of your product has the potential to ruin that for customers who aren't aware of those issues. I probably wouldn't be surprised if that aspect also makes it harder for you to clamp down on fraud, abuse, and spam. If you don't control the send server then you might not know everything that's going on from front to back.

2. Someone looking to save money can already find MailChimp competitors that are cheaper without the overhead of having to also hook up a second service to send the emails. For example, 15K contacts at mailerlite is $98/month. Or I could do something email send-based like Brevo and send 40,000 emails per month at $35. If I go with Brevo I don't have to bring my own email send service.

3. The LSV of an email subscriber is so high that the end result is you're going too far downmarket. Customers would benefit more from more effective campaigns with better deliverability, more powerful business logic, more integrations to other business platforms, etc. In other words, paying more is worth the investment. The LSV of an email subscriber is often somewhere between $10-50. So if you have 15,000 active contacts you are looking at revenue from those subscribe rover their lifetime as potentially being something like $150,000-$750,000. In that frame of reference, $230/month for MailChimp is a steal.

I'm just not sure who this is for. Sure, you do say it's for indie developers, but I think that target customer has the most options to use something else.

I think the Mom test would be applicable here. I worry that you built a product just for yourself that doesn't really appeal to anyone else. The main differentiators seem to be low price and splitting up the business logic from the send service, which to me is kind of like making someone buying an ice cream buy the ice cream cone next door.

Great points, especially on deliverability - that's the biggest trade-off with BYOSMTP. You're right that managed providers have better reputation management, which is why our hosted service is positioned as the primary offering. The open-source version serves a different need: developers who want full control or have compliance requirements that prevent using third-party platforms.

On market positioning, I think there's still room between "build your own email system" and "pay $200+/month for enterprise features you don't need." Our target isn't competing with MailChimp for high-LTV businesses, but serving the gap where small businesses outgrow basic tools but aren't ready for enterprise pricing. That said, your "Mom test" concern is valid. We're validating this with real users to ensure we're not just building for ourselves.

> I think there's still room between "build your own email system" and "pay $200+/month for enterprise features you don't need."

I don’t mean to beat the subject down but I think there is a lot less room than you are giving it credit for. I’ve already laid out how there are ample choices in the “cheaper than MailChimp” space (and I wouldn’t even consider MailChimp to be particularly “enterprise.”)

If you’ve outgrown basic tools you probably can afford MailChimp or some other sub-enterprise offering. By definition a business that outgrows basic tools is making decent money and can probably throw $200 a month at MailChimp.

I’m an adviser to a very similar service which started with a similar frustration. I was a customer in their earlier avatar but I asked them to rebrand recently. We continue to stick to the simplicity and minimal approach to everything from design to the processing, etc. as much as possible. The biggest hurdle is the “Bring your Own SMTP.” The team continue to help out a lot of customers just to set up their Amazon SES, map domains, etc.

Restricting on the number of contacts is kinda just made-up, so the FREE tier is generous at 5000 contacts, with 50,000 Emails/SMS sends.

https://sendune.com/pages/pricing

This also attracts a lot of spammers, and suspending their accounts is another routine.

Thanks for sharing your experience! You're spot on about BYOSMTP being a major hurdle. That's actually why we built Fertit as both a hosted service AND open-source. Users who want managed SMTP get the simplicity, while those with existing infrastructure can self-host. We've found the dual approach helps address different needs without forcing everyone down the same path. The spam challenge is real, and I'm curious how Sendune balances generous free tiers with spam prevention? Our pricing takes a different approach with smaller contact limits but lower entry costs, though I agree contact limits across the industry can feel arbitrary.

The main reason people pay expensive ESPs is deliverability, which is practically impossible when self-hosting when it comes to marketing, non-transactional emails, and in any case much more expensive than any ESP subscription.

How does Fertit position itself in relation to that?

Fertit actually leverages the best of both worlds through our SMTP integration approach:

Use Established ESPs for Delivery: Fertit connects to your existing SMTP provider (SendGrid, Mailgun, Amazon SES, etc.) - so you still get their deliverability infrastructure and IP reputation.

Save on Interface & Features: Instead of paying $50-300/month for ConvertKit or Mailchimp's full platform, you pay $5-10/month for Fertit's management layer while using a cheaper transactional email service for actual delivery.

Cost Comparison: Traditional ESP: $79/month for 5,000 subscribers Fertit approach: $9.99/month (Pro plan) + $15/month (SendGrid) = ~$25/month total

Deliverability is not a purely technical SMTP-level issue. It also involves domain/IP reputation, email content quality, bounce rate management, spam complaints etc etc etc. Also I'm pretty sure there is a buuuunch of compliance stuff you can't just punt to SES no? How much are you handling on your side and how much can SES do?

Fertit provides essential newsletter infrastructure (preferences, unsubscribes, basic compliance) for a low cost (1.99-9.99$/month) vs $79 for full-service ESPs, but users handle advanced deliverability optimization themselves. It's positioned between "raw SMTP" and "full-service ESP" - covers the regulatory basics but not the sophisticated deliverability management that determines inbox placement rates.

Don’t most of these services explicitly disallow using them for newsletter type of use? If you send a bunch of the same types of emails to bursts of thousands of users at once, those companies have algorithms that will eventually pick it up (especially if there are lots of images/content embedded).

Am I misunderstanding the limitations of which services are available to use for “bring your own SMTP”?

Good point! You're absolutely right that many basic SMTP providers (Gmail, Outlook, etc.) restrict bulk newsletter sending to large number of emails.

Fertit is designed to work with newsletter-appropriate SMTP services like SendGrid, Mailgun, Amazon SES, Postmark, and Mailjet - providers that explicitly support bulk email sending. These typically cost $10-50/month depending on volume, which is still much cheaper than the $79+ full-service ESPs charge. The value prop is: instead of paying ConvertKit $79/month for 1000 subscribers, you pay SendGrid ~$15/month for SMTP + Fertit $9.99/month = ~$25/month total, while still getting proper unsubscribe handling, preference management, and basic compliance features.

You're right that it requires users to handle the SMTP setup themselves - it's positioned for people who want more control and cost savings but don't need the full white-glove deliverability management of premium ESPs.

Thanks for pointing this out - I should make the SMTP requirements clearer in the marketing!

If you look at Postmarks website, they explicitly disallow the service you are promoting. Marketing emails are not allowed to be sent through Postmark.

https://postmarkapp.com/transactional-email

This entire link describes their definition of transactional email.

I generally like your idea, but as someone in growth, I hope you provide the users with a lot of instruction and warning on compliance, CASL are particularly eager to enforce.

Fertit handles the core compliance infrastructure (double opt-in, one-click unsubscribe, preference management, suppression lists) but you're right that users need clear guidance on the legal requirements.

You can still pair with Sendgrid or SES, etc. It doesn't have to be THAT expensive. I think the hardest part is figuring out how you need to enter some of the DNS settings depending on where your DNS is provided and the UI/UX.

Aside: I really wish Google hadn't sold off domains.

I run a few instances of listmonk [0], what makes fertit different/better?

One thing I don’t particularly like about listmonk is that it doesn’t really support multitenancy. It’s lightweight enough that I can spin up multiple instances for different domains, but it’d be nice not to.

https://listmonk.app/

Multi-tenancy is exactly what Fertit was built to solve. But it is available only in Fertit hoster service, not the open-source version at the current moment. Listmonk is excellent - we actually considered building on top of it initially. The main differentiators: Multi-tenancy (your pain point): Native support for multiple newsletters/domains in one instance Unified management across all your properties

Positioning differences: Listmonk: Power-user tool with SQL segmentation, advanced templating, high-throughput queues Fertit: Simplified interface targeting small businesses who want "just works" newsletter management

Architecture approach: Listmonk: Single binary + PostgreSQL (requires more ops knowledge) Fertit: Docker Compose setup with Redis for caching, designed for easier deployment

Business model: Open-source version addresses your self-hosting needs Hosted service ($5-10/month) for users who want zero ops

When you'd choose Fertit over Listmonk: You manage newsletters for multiple clients/domains (multi-tenancy) You prefer simpler UI over advanced segmentation features You want commercial support option You're hitting operational complexity with multiple Listmonk instances

When you'd stick with Listmonk: You need the advanced features (SQL queries, high-throughput queues) Current multi-instance setup works fine for your scale You prefer the mature, battle-tested codebase

Would love your thoughts on the multi-tenancy approach - is that the main friction point you're hitting with multiple instances?

Love the pain point here: the “bring your own SMTP” + low infra cost really stands out. We see tons of SaaS/AI founders struggling with email infra. Any plans to open up built-in templates for onboarding, product updates, investor comms? Or is the focus strictly on newsletter flows? (Curious if you’re seeing more demand from SaaS or content businesses?)

Congrats on the launch. With your other tiers so cheap, I'm not sure why you marked the Enterprise tier as "call us for a chat"? Just price it at something reasonable and move on. No one wants to talk to a sales person for a $500 a month expense.

Would love to see some screenshots of a few parts of the interface, like the editor, sign up forms builder, and contacts management.

Hey, thanks for feedback. While there are some screenshots in product hunt launch, I will definitely add more images and videos later to make it easier to use platform. https://www.producthunt.com/posts/fertit

Would u be open to adding SMS also. I’ve never worked out an affordable way to do SMS.

SMS is definitely on our radar! We're exploring AWS SNS integration first since it fits our "bring your own" model perfectly - users would connect their AWS account just like they do with SMTP. This keeps costs low while avoiding the complexity of direct carrier relationships.

If you're interested in SMS features, supporting us with a subscription would definitely help us prioritize and build this faster. Are you currently stuck with expensive SMS providers? Would love to understand your volume/use case to make sure we build something that actually solves your problem.

There’s definitely a difference between spam and permission-based email marketing. Fertit is built specifically for legitimate newsletter subscriptions - subscribers opt-in through proper signup forms and can easily manage preferences or unsubscribe. It’s the same model used by every legitimate business newsletter, from GitHub updates to Substack publications. The focus is on providing value to people who actually want to receive the content.

Of course, you can just say this as an edgy blanket statement and prescribe personal preferences to everyone in the world.

A lot of people actually want to be sold to.

Only to tech nerds. When it's B2B, and targeted and positioned properly, it's business

When you’re on the receiving end of it… still spam.

If it doesn't offer anything of value, sure.

But the good ones do.

What a silly comment.

With a knife, you can stab a person to death or you can cut onions to dinner.

Huh? How is it spam when I receive newsletters I sign up for?

Are you confused between newsletters/marketing and actual spam maybe?

I would be willing to bet that vast majority of “subscribed” newsletters are spam.

I always receive a ton of newsletters. Never once have I signed up, I always uncheck all sign up prompts and always immediately unsubscribe if I receive one.

Even then, immediately after any sort of purchase I get resubscribed. I’m convinced that most shops completely ignore all user choices and resubscribe everyone to all mailing lists after purchase.

This is where I definitely appreciate sites/apps/newsletters that have at least a double confirmation (email validation) step before you start seeing garbage.

You'd be surprised how many people don't understand how, say gmail works and just start using an address they never signed up for and now I'm seeing mlb.com receipts for purchases, or someone's student loan paperwork.

You’re absolutely right about this being a huge problem and it’s exactly why I built proper consent management into Fertit from the ground up. What you’re describing (auto-resubscribing after purchase, ignoring unsubscribe requests) is both illegal under CAN-SPAM/GDPR and terrible business practice. The legitimate use case is businesses that actually respect their subscribers. Think GitHub release notes, Substack authors, or local businesses sending monthly updates to customers who genuinely want them. But you’re spot on that too many companies abuse email marketing, which ruins it for everyone.

In the end, every newsletter I ever signed up to ends up being spam. Acquisition of the company I signed up with or just change of plans: it always happen, usually within months, sometimes years, but I don't know of any cases it did not happen over the past 30 years of signing up to them.