It’s really sad that people are giving up high quality reasonably priced electric vehicles over politics. I’ve driven a Prius for years, because it’s obviously to me that sending money to shady petro states all over the world is just a bad idea and the volatility of oil prices isn’t worth it and the overall maintenance and reliability of my hybrid vehicle is incredible.
I probably will replace it with a Tesla, but I’m hoping they release a 3 row with a reasonable 3rd row seat that would be great for my family and there’s no rush because I don’t really drive too much.
That being said, I think Tesla’s are obviously incredible engineering feats that everyone should want. Politics aside.
Yet Tesla market cap is four times that of Toyota's.
Unbelievable.
I had to stay out of TSLA after the first year or so because the valuation made no sense to me. Other than a FOMO / YOLO play like BTC.
I'm shocked that the valuation continues to remain so high after so many lies and mediocre results. Was the Cybertruck a success? There definitely are not a million Tesla robotaxis on the road as Elon suggested there would be by 2020.
Well, I heard Cathie Wood refer to Tesla as the largest AI project in the world. So if you think of it that way maybe the sky's the limit. She seems 100% certain that people will be earning money renting out their Teslas as robotaxis in the next few years. But it's a car company. Or not. Maybe. Whatever. I put it in the "too hard" pile.
I'm not saying this doesn't hold, but this includes every first-run first-model car from Tesla (5-10 years old cohort), and decade+ old refined models from every other brand.
Admittedly just a hunch, but I suspect the data for the more recent cohorts and Tesla models is much better than this data shows
The politics is a symptom of a greater problem with Musk's companies, which is that they ultimately only care about his bottom line.
As a current owner, I wouldn't buy again because of the abysmal customer service and repair experience. This car is a huge computer, and has plenty of glitches appearing now that it's out of warranty.
The main benefit of a Tesla vs other electric cars was the supercharging network, but with the adoption of NACS across most manufacturers, that advantage is gone.
There are plenty of high quality reasonably priced electric vehicles people can buy – they're just not Teslas.
Toyota had announced a 3-row EV to begin production this year, in Kentucky. Who knows if it will be delayed or cancelled. If you go read the CEO section of the earnings call transcripts from last year, you’ll get an idea of what near(ish) future EVs from Ford are going to look like - to be built in Tennessee and Michigan.
Which is all to say that what you want is much more likely to come from Toyota or Ford or Hyundai or Kia than it is from Tesla.
Four years ago (or whenever it was that Musk was still thouoght a hero around these parts) you would have been downvoted into oblivion on this site for critiquing Tesla quality, so let's just all admit it's about politics.
I and many others will not support the megolmaniac that took a chainsaw to our federal government. Musk not only hired a bunch of palantir, ballet machine hackers, but he also ensured the many lawsuits against him were dropped, the investigations into his companies that should have cost him billions were dropped, and that his companies get $100s of millions of no competition government contracts.
Correct. I will not support Musk ever again, regardless of his current PR bombardment. Musk has shown who he is and now he will reap the rewards of that reputation.
100% true, although even if Musk wasn't toxic I wouldn't get a Tesla because of the poor build quality, touchscreen controls, and the overpromise/underdeliver history.
Tesla has always had very bad quality control and you can find stories about this for at least 8 years now. Here is one from 2020[0] and one from 2018[1]. Quality control has always been Tesla's weak point. It takes no effort to find these instead of being easily proven wrong.
I think the tension here is that (1) Teslas have more and better technology that other cars, and (2) they have more mechanical problems than other brands.
So they're both better and worse technology, depending on what you focus on.
Leaving everything else you've written aside... Really‽ You believe that it's possible to make a single kind of car with minimal variation in styles and capabilities that will appeal to the entire world, at every price point, every demographic?
I suggest you are over-extrapolating your own confirmation bias. I drive a Volvo, it is not possible for Tesla to sell me a vehicle with a single flat screen to replace my buttons, screen, digital gauge cluster, and heads-up display. It is not possible to sell me a Model Y or Model X to replace my wagon. I am obviously not Tesla's market for Tesla's current product lineup, period.
My neighbour has a cottage and owns a truck they use for all sorts of hauling things around. I have spoken with them, it is not possible to sell them a CyberTruck, they are interested in the F150 Lightning, a vehicle designed for truck owners who want to electrify. My neighbour is not Tesla's market either.
Tesla is not into broad market segmentation. Tesla is into having a well-defined market and offering a handful of models to that market. You're in that market and you're happy with your Tesla. Ok. But come on, do you understand that the rest of the 7 billion people on this planet make up a wide variety of humans with a wide variety of wants and needs where a vehicle is concerned?
And that literally ZERO manufacturers can make a handful of cars that everyone will want?
They were a feat of engineering, ten years ago. Maybe even five years ago.
But for what they actually offer (excluding the "betas" and "Muskian Promises"), most manufacturers make a car that's comparable / better depending on your needs.
And if things are comparable, than you can bring in other things to make a decision. And the politics of the company's outspoken CEO is certainly something you could consider.
It's not just that; competition has arrived as well. Mach E, F150 Lightning, Blazer, Equinox, Ariya, Silverado EV, Ioniq 5 and 6, EV6 and EV9. Toyota has announce new BEV models as well.
And that's just North America. BYD and NIO have extremely compelling options outside of this side of the planet.
BYD makes some of the best EVs on the planet and CATL some of the best batteries. The only reason they aren't dominating in the US is because of trade agreements keeping them out.
My current car is a 2018 tesla, I'll drive it until the wheels fall off. My next EV won't be. Primarily because I can't support a Nazi.
> It’s really sad that people are giving up high quality reasonably priced electric vehicles over politics
It's not 5 years ago. There are now quite a few makers of quality reasonably priced EVs. If someone decides to avoid one particular maker over politics there are plenty of other choices.
Yes, people see keeping aside politics aside and buying better vehicles like BYD. It’s really sad to not recognise it and instead blame it on “politics”.
>because it’s obviously to me that sending money to shady petro states all over the world is just a bad idea
The US has been a net exporter of oil for several years now and what it does import is mainly (>70%) production from Canada and Mexico. As far as crude oil goes, in 2024 the US imported 6.48 million barrels per day and exported 4.06 million. Of those 2.42 million barrels of crude oil, approximately 1.7 million came from oilfields in Canada and Mexico.
While we as a society should transition away from fossil fuels as quickly as practical, there is actually a very small chance a gallon of gasoline pumped into a vehicle originated in a shady petrostate.
>Tesla’s are obviously incredible engineering feats that everyone should want
Teslas were impressive, technologically, to normal consumers ten years ago.
Having driven every single model of Tesla ever made they are not for me except for the Roadster; their dynamics more closely resemble a heavily laden minivan with fantastic acceleration than a fun-to-drive car and their styling is design-by-committee bland.
Conversely, I think it's really sad that people are financing the incredibly destructive extra-curricular activities of a ketamine-fueled billionaire over a car.
But I think a functioning democracy is something that everyone should want, incredible engineering feats aside.
There are now plenty of other high-quality BEV to choose from.
And Tesla had an edge but it has been eroding with some idiotic decisions (like the no stalks model 3) and Elon's recent behavior completely destroyed the brand to those mostly likely to buy one.
These cars are cost-optimized to the bare-bones. The bull-headed decision to use cameras for everything, including for sensing rain, isn't giving them any favors. All other manufacturers in the space use a combination of radar/lidar and cameras for self-driving capabilities, and as a result are much safer.
I probably will replace it with a Tesla, but I’m hoping they release a 3 row with a reasonable 3rd row seat that would be great for my family and there’s no rush because I don’t really drive too much.
That being said, I think Tesla’s are obviously incredible engineering feats that everyone should want. Politics aside.