I've had an MX Master mouse (the "2" for maybe 8-9 years then the "3" for 2-3 years now) and love it. Great performance, great battery life, fantastic design and feel. On Windows I definitely do not love the 150Mb program to manage it (surely sending a torrent of unnecessary telemetry data back to Logitech.
I found Solaar a couple months ago after getting repeatedly frustrated with bluetooth connection issues. It really is exactly what it needs to be. Better interface than Logitech's, simple, lightweight. Devs have my thanks; what a great show of the goodness of open source software.
I never had Bluetooth connection issues with my Logitech hardware, but I wanted mine to work without an OS (i.e. with a Bolt receiver).
Solaar handled the pairing in 30 seconds flat, and I can't be happier. The only thing is, since Bolt doesn't look like proper BT to the OS, battery levels can only be monitored from Solaar itself.
IIUIC, Unifying receiver used a completely different protocol, but Bolt protocol is just supercharged Bluetooth with some low latency and encryption sauces on top.
Sounds nice, except so far I have only one Logitech device that works with the bolt receiver, which is the MX Master 3s.
I also have an MX vertical which uses the unifying receiver.
Then I also have a pro x superlight, which has yet another receiver. I believe they call that one lightspeed or something.
So now I have 3 separate adapters for 3 devices, all of which theoretically support pairing multiple devices (I think the lightspeed only does 3 though).
It also introduces a ton of lag, especially when more than a single device and some distance is involved (Mouse + Keyboard + Headphones makes my headphones cut out sometimes)
Bluetooth Low Energy with some Logitech sauce added into it. Apparently encrypted and marketed for use in contexts where FIPS level security would be required.
Logitech's might be a large download, but their Windows software still seems far more optimized than Corsair's. After a few days of uptime, Corsair's processes would have nearly an hour of CPU time. Logitech's would have a couple minutes at most. I replaced all my Corsair equipment with Logitech or others after seeing that.
To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your mouse, tailored to you, even if you don’t have the software on the target device you’re using your mouse.
Yes, Logitech’s high end mice store settings themselves. The app is just a programming interface. It sometimes does per program profile switch, too, IIRC.
All programmable mice store their settings on the device itself, like Roccat and Razer. A true programmable mouse doesn't need software running in the background. A configuration application that needs to continue running is now just a background service running in user mode and not a true configuration application.
Roccat user because of the size of the mouse is bigger than others and all the buttons can be reprogrammed, along with the wheel. No background software needed and all configuration changes are OS independent.
Not a Logitech user because the wheel could not be programmed to control the sound volume. Last time I tried their products. Even contacted their support to verify the wheel, most useful for controlling audio, is fixed to page scrolling only.
Razer mice are too small for my hands and I feel like an Eagle clawing at a minnow. At least they allow for fully reprogramming all the buttons and wheel, unlike Logitech. And you don't need background software for the programming with it being OS independent after programming.
Only bad part is that Roccat is no longer Linux supported. The original developer that reverse engineered stop supporting the products. Roccat also is like most business and blows off 1st party support for Linux. Windows VM is needed just to program the mouse, which only done once.
> because the wheel could not be programmed to control the sound volume.
If that's your biggest gripe with Logitech, then I can say they're pretty successful. Personally, I'd not prefer to reach to my mouse just for volume, but everyone is to their own.
> A true programmable mouse doesn't need software running in the background.
Logitech Mice doesn't need the application to run in the background. I'm using my G700's profiles (which I set once under Windows) under Linux without any tools for (checks notes) 14 years at this point.
> Windows VM is needed just to program the mouse, which only done once.
How this is different from Logitech devices? It's exactly the same with Logitech.
My hand is on my mouse so often that is quicker to use the wheel as volume control, with a meta mouse button to switch between page scrolling and volume scrolling.
This is not only useful in games to increase or decrease the sound in real-time while to shunt loud sounds and to improve hearing the environment you are in. It is also useful in business. Quickly controlling the volume when a person interrupts.
*Note that the scroll wheel secondary meta key is used as volume control. Primary function without active meta is page scrolling.
User experience scenario. Click on a link that starts playing a video or audio source. The source is too loud with the same volume setting that worked with the previous video. It is faster to press the meta button on the mouse and scroll the wheel or press the middle button to mute then actually moving to a physical speaker, volume control on the OS, or keyboard, which often needs a meta key too.
Volume control is more natural with the wheel because it is no different the the rotational volume control on speaker versus continual button press to decrement or increment the numeric setting.
Logitech G mice dont need the app, but regular ones do. My Mx master 3s and Mx ergo reset to the default sensitivity and button functions if I leave them alone for a while.
That's interesting, thanks for the information. I don't use any apps with my M705s (yes, I have a couple). The user I was replying to was giving examples of mice which are in the same class with Logitech G series, this is why I directly quoted my experience with G700.
>reset to the default sensitivity and button functions if I leave them alone for a while.
I need to try that. Mine is USB wired with no battery.
I've got one of the lesser G USB 6-button "gaming" RGBs that was unused for well over a year. Never did try any Logi Windows apps or do any gaming either. Used as a mild-mannered office mouse instead :)
A while back I started using it again, this time on a Linux PC and it still glowed with the default pattern which I had never changed. Fine by me.
Then started dual booting Windows 11 and all was well until I connected to the internet, the Logitech firmware on the mouse got autoupdated, and lights out :(
Still glows during POST but LEDs go out unless Windows kicks it back on in some way or another.
You want it to do what it once was doing without an app? Your Windows 11 may already be updated far enough itself to give RGB control now.
Otherwise you can use the Logitech app.
Which doesn't have a Linux version.
Looks like mine needs a background app of some kind now if I want glowing again. Oh well.
Still looking forward to trying Solaar when I get back to that particular desktop :)
Some of the mice have a toggleable on-board memory mode, where you can configure profiles that are saved on the mouse. You may be able to change the default lighting pattern back.
Sure, Logitech "G" series mice are supposed to be "gaming", but for a very long time I used them exclusively for office work.
My first one was a g9x, followed by a g700s. Those may look a bit "gamery", but I later had a g703 which was as sober as they come.
And, even though it's not as critical for office use, I found it very pleasant to have next to no lag on a wireless mouse. I now have a mx master 3s, which has "ok" wireless performance and is surprisingly nimble for its size and weight. I can't complain about it while I use it, but I immediately feel the difference when I switch to a Logitech G Lightspeed or a friend's Razer with whatever their equivalent technology is called.
And since these aren't that expensive (the MX is actually the most expensive mouse I've ever had), this tends to reinforce my considering them as full competitors to logi's "office" line.
Logitech has an on board memory manager app, it's a single executable portable no install needed that changes the settings directly on your mouse and then terminates.
Some high-end mice and keyboard combos also support features like fast computer switching, clipboard sync etc.
Imagine you have both a desktop and a laptop, with your laptop screen positioned below the display connected to the desktop. You can make your Logitech mouse act as if they were one device; if you slide past the top edge of your laptop screen, both the mouse and the keyboard switch over to the desktop.
You can even press ctrl+c on one device, move your mouse to the other and press ctrl+v (with the same keyboard of course), and it's going to do the right thing. I think even drag and drop across computers works, at least in some circumstances.
That's pretty cool. Now I just wish they'd release a wireless G600 with this capability. Best thing I ever bought was an MMO mouse. It's incredibly useful for a lot of use cases outside of MMOs.
> To be able to program all the configurable buttons, and upload the macros and settings to the profiles present on the mouse itself, so you can use all the features of your mouse, tailored to you
Yep. Definitely sounds like something requiring a 150 Mb program to manage the complexity..
And yet, my keyboard can do almost (no per-program switching) all of the same FROM A WEB PAGE. WebHID should be all that's needed for advanced input devices. If you want some sort of per-program profile switching, sure, release a dedicated app that handles sending a special HID command sequence to trigger a profile switch.
If the webpage was required to be connected back to Logitech to function, yeah, deservedly so. If, like Via, it can run fully offline then all you'd need is to save the page for offline use and that would be acceptable.
Because there's a computer in your mouse and you need software on your host computer to talk to and peogram the mouse's computer.
That of course would make it optional like with most programmable keyboards but then there's the need to manage pairing via their wireless dongles and then it quickly becomes necessary.
Outside of it all being intentionally proprietary I don't see why they couldn't take an approach similar to VIA in managing their devices. There's also prior work for flashing microcontrollers from the web browser, I'm thinking of ESP32s specifically.
Personally, I can understand that for initial setup but hate that the way they're implemented means that it has to always be running, and it frequently has to be restarted to recognize the mouse correctly and apply those settings. Many keyboards have figured this out and don't require anything to be running to keep their settings across multiple devices so it feels like logitech will never improve in this area for the sake of keeping their bloat/spyware on your machine.
All of those should be state changes in the mouse.. IE. the software should run to make the settings then exit. There should be no reason for it to keep running.
Logitech's best kept secret is they do make a lightweight version of their software for exactly that, it edits the settings saved on the mouse and does absolutely nothing else. It's only available for Windows though.
Logitech's mice can't do basic things like output a key chord upon a button press using only what's available onboard, sadly. The onboard capabilities are more limited than they have to be, probably to drive people to G-Hub.
Their best feature - and the one thing that I have most missed for years after moving to Linux - is automatically changing the active mouse profile based on the focused application.
It's so powerful. Any custom buttons for any program, without ever having to think about it. On Linux, without it, I'm stuck manually cycling through the 3 on-board profiles.
I use Autohotkey in Windows to achieve that, because I got sick of Logitech fairly regularly misdetecting the current application (when it does that, you have to focus a different app and then try again).
I just get the mouse to always use the same onboard profile and send the higher F-keys that aren't on the keyboard (F13-F24), and ahk detects those and does whatever crazy stuff I can think up. I even have long-press/short-press for some buttons set up. Works great.
There must be a way to do something similar in Linux.
#Requires AutoHotkey v2.0
#SingleInstance force
MsgBox(A_ScriptName " started",, "T0.5")
SendLevel 1 ; allows triggering of hotkeys and hotstrings of another script, which normally would not be the case
LongPress := 0.2 ; 200ms
F18::{ ; first pointer button
Switch WinGetProcessName("A") {
Case "firefox.exe" :
Send "+{F3}" ; Shift-F3 - Find previous
Case "vlc.exe" :
Send "PgUp"
Default:
NoFunctionDefined(A_ThisHotkey)
}
return
}
F20::{ ; third pointer button
activeapp := WinGetProcessName("A")
Switch activeapp {
Case "vlc.exe" :
Send "s"
Default:
}
if (activeapp = "firefox.exe") {
waitvar := (KeyWait(A_ThisHotkey, "T" LongPress)) ; waits LongPress seconds maximally for F20 to be released
if waitvar {
; Short press action
Send "{F24}"
}
else {
; Long press action
Send "{F5}" ; F5 - reload tab
}
KeyWait A_ThisHotkey ; waits for F20 to be released (avoids key repeat from retriggering)
} else {
Send "{F24}"
}
return
}
NoFunctionDefined(hotkey)
{
Tooltip("No function defined for " . hotkey "`nActive app is " WinGetProcessName("A"))
SetTimer () => ToolTip(), -2000
return
}
; --- Shift-Media_Play_Pause will Reload this script ---
~+Media_Play_Pause::{
MsgBox(A_ScriptName " Reloading...",, "T0.5")
Reload
Sleep 1000 ; If successful, the reload will close this instance during the Sleep, so the line below will never be reached.
if MsgBox("The script could not be reloaded. Would you like to open it for editing?","Reload", "YesNo") = "Yes"
Edit
return
}
You don't need to keep it open, it just puts itself in the auto run list on install and you can disable it from launching. The configuration is just state changes on the mouse
It doesn't need the app. You can use their stuff without it.
If you want to use some of their more advanced features, you need to use the app.
For example, I have it setup so that if my macbook is on, I can push my cursor to the far left of my windows screen and my mouse will automatically switch to the macbook bringing along anything in the clipboard.
My mouse have loads of features like programmable buttons. I don't think it should be memory resident - probably could work by opening, configuring, saving to firmware and shutting down, but at least its existence is justified. Wasn't it shit, I would be OK with it.
> So your mouse driver can have AI in it, apparently.
Just to highlight: The offline installer (supposedly for business environments) does not include AI. It can be installed directly on top of the regular application.
Same. It also, on install, turned on a feature letting me know caps pick on/off every time I hit it ,but on the screen. It drove me nuts until I finally realized it started after installing...
For even more credit, they should leave all the extra telemetry and other crap out of the download, so it's only a megabyte or so, instead of 150MB, and let people opt-in to downloading that junk.
iirc they shipped an electron app the last time I used it on Windows. The 150 MB are likely just 30% Chrome, 40% graphics (their UI is fancy and has images of connected components) and, 10% bundled js code.
Management absolutely cares, they have a whole design guidebook why wouldn’t they follow it??
And the drivers likely aren’t cross-platform in the sense of “the windows DLL is just dead code on a Mac”, but the UI of the software can be the same across platforms. The executable is likely a tiny bit of platform-specific launcher code and then cross-platform electron fun.
> they have a whole design guidebook why wouldn’t they follow it??
So the same question applies: yes they have a whole design guidebook but why ? Does the users care ? My opinion would be that most don’t and that those who care are horrified by all those apps with all their own guidelines.
Computers used to be (and I’ll be giving credits to old windows for that) « once you learned the system/ergonomics you only have to adapt to each program’s feature set » and is now « relearn everything on my app and btw it’s not compatible with other apps except our partners ».
I mean as an example, we pretty much had a working standard in how to discover features of a program (the menu bar) and how to give back data to the user (saving and opening files). Just knowing those patterns made you apt to discover most of programs features.
I’m not saying it was perfect or intuitive, but it was not hard and OSes could have improved that.
But we collectively ditched that for, it seems, easier deployment on the web (which is not something Logitech is concerned by, btw) and since there is no UI framework, why not hire UI designers to write UI guidelines ? It’ll make marketing guys happy anyway.
I’m sorry I recognize that I’m a little salty on this topic but I do feel like the industry stole something important to the users, or at least if I’m honest, to me, which is the basic knowledge of how to use a computer.
Oh I want to be clear that I’m not defending the use of the design guide in this context - I think style guides are fine for certain things, but not necessarily desktop apps like these. I get that it’s Electron, and so in theory the same components could be shared to their web experience and to other installers etc but I don’t know if they do that.
I was one of those people who thought XP/ME went too far (im a System 7 Stan tbh, but 98 was solid enough). And then when Office got the ribbon I was so unhappy lol. I don’t like a lot of how MS has embraced trendy UI, outside of windows phone which I actually really liked (and that made sense, it was a system that didn’t have much to go on, and they weren’t living up to any expectations outside of “be different than Apple and be better than Google”. I will def be salty here because MS had a great opportunity with windows phone and just blundered it. For every solid idea they have, it feels like they fumble 10000 other actually decent products).
I personally really appreciate that Apple has largely not changed the fundamentals of their OS in regards to the dock and menu bar - sure the dock is “new” as of OSX but that’s going on what, 20 years old now? At least? And the menu bar has been with us since always. Using native MS apps in 11 and not having a visible File menu drives me bonkers.
> I’m sorry I recognize that I’m a little salty on this topic but I do feel like the industry stole something important to the users, or at least if I’m honest, to me, which is the basic knowledge of how to use a computer.
I feel this. For the company I work for, we have an A11y group that is comprised of representatives from different departments (across engineering, product, marketing, and design) that meets regularly. Our component designs focus on accessibility, discoverability, and usability. If we are going to say “well we want a blue button with a drop shadow” instead of whatever the browser and OS do, fine, I’m going to make sure it’s still USABLE and accessible dammit. /rant
To be honest I would be more inclined to install their driver if it did not include ugly Logitech branding and respected a bit more the OS it runs on. I don’t care about cross platform UI in an application for mouse settings, it’s simply not my problem. It has 1 window, FFS. How hard is it to use native toolkits?
To be fair, most people just absolutely don't care about this stuff as long as it does its job, so it makes sense for them to use a cross-platform toolkit here.
You have to remember that, besides the extra engineering effort, having a separate, native UI for each platform also increases the support burden for dealing with people having issues with the program. Companies the size of Logitech bend over backwards to reduce their support costs, so it shouldn't be surprising that they opted for the path of least resistance here.
That would imply there’s a third, indeterminate state prior to opting one way or another (which is the ideal situation - ask on install with a non defaulted option)
A master programmer passed a novice programmer one day. The master noted the novice’s preoccupation with a hand‐held computer game. “Excuse me”, he said, “may I examine it?”
The novice bolted to attention and handed the device to the master. “I see that the device claims to have three levels of play: Easy, Medium and Hard”, said the master. “Yet every such device has another level of play, where the device seeks not to conquer the human, nor to be conquered by the human.”
“Pray, great master”, implored the novice, “how does one find this mysterious setting?”
The master dropped the device to the ground and crushed it underfoot.
A reasonable third, and default, state could be collect diagnostic data locally. The user can choose to send the diagnostic data if they have issues with the device. After all, the term diagnostic data implies that it is being used for troubleshooting.
Sadly the MX family of mousen need the Logitech Software for customisation. It's not saved on the mouse, so if Logi Options is not running the mouse operates in default state, with no custom button mappings, etc.
it works fine for me on windows, only annoyance is google maps, switching to street view, one wheel rotation unit acts like 15, so switches back and forth uncommanded to street mode and out
With the Linux kernel, USB power savings are also annoying on Logitech devices. If you set everything on USB bus to powersave, their mice and keyboards will go to sleep every few seconds unless there's continuous activity.
I have experience with Dell and Apple keyboards on Linux, and they don't suffer from this issue. The problem is not terrible, but requires a special udev rule to exclude them from powersaving, which is annoying.
Also they've been very slow to adopt optical switches compared to other brands, a handful of their high end gaming mice have them, but the vast majority of their range still uses the same old mechanical switches that tend to start erroneously double clicking after a while.
If your mouse starts double clicking, play a game of Quake 3 for an hour, or just click a bit more aggressively for the next hour. It clears the problem, per my experience.
What I understood is, the switches on these mice (I have G700) are practically abuse-proof. However, they don’t like to be used lightly and start to glitch possibly from fine dust. Using the switches more aggressively cleans them up.
Their switches are just crap. They use Omron switches mostly due to their low cost, even on supposedly "high-end" mice. People routinely replace them with better alternatives (e.g. TTC Gold or Kailh, but there are lots of them) and get years of heavy usage after that without any problems. The switches can be obtained on aliexpress, you do need a soldering iron though.
It’s not just a soldering iron needed. I replaced the switches on my 17-year-old Logitech MX Revolution and on a newer Performance MX and the old switches are completely impossible to remove from the PCB without snipping away at them and a lot of (careful) force. However I can say that the result was worth it, no more phantom double-clicks. Mouse itself was fine.
Maybe for some of the newer mice it’s an easier ordeal, though.
I mean, if a mouse is working for 10+ years for 8 hours a day (M705) or for 14 years for 2-3 hours a day (G700) without any major problems, I wouldn't call that switches crap.
No, it's a job for a sewing needle or a toothpick. Logitech switches can be temporarily fixed by disassembling the switch and adjusting the contact plate inside because it gets bent out of shape and stops registering the clicks correctly. But it's easier (and more reliable) to replace them with higher quality alternatives while you're in there.
The G700 in question registers clicks correctly for 14 years at this point. The problem in my case is very light clicks and dust ingress to said switches. I have 10+ year old M705 mice which doesn't have any switch problems.
The left-click switch on my Logitech G305 started glitching-out after a couple years, particularly noticeable when trying to drag something, the drag would drop randomly in the middle. Disappointing to only last a couple years.
I found replacement switches for $10 on amazon, pre-wired with little plug, easy enough to install with just a micro-screwdriver, no soldering. This problem is common enough that there is a good selection of different switch brands/types available. Fantastic. Not disappointed at all anymore, honestly.
Using Linux with an MX Master 3S, I see noticeable lag sometimes when moving the mouse cursor around when using the bolt receiver. Using regular Bluetooth gives me no issues.
That might be true for Windows, on Mac OS I get perfectly reliable connections (years of usage with multiple mice) with Bluetooth. And I don't have to use any stupid dongles.
I found Solaar a couple months ago after getting repeatedly frustrated with bluetooth connection issues. It really is exactly what it needs to be. Better interface than Logitech's, simple, lightweight. Devs have my thanks; what a great show of the goodness of open source software.