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I doubt he disputes that men can love their work. It is just they have fewer options if they do not.


I disagree. Granted, they are less likely to earn money on OnlyFans etc., but apart from that they can do the same things: they can be artists and do low paying jobs that they like.

What I agree though is that if they do chose a low-paying job, it might be more difficult for them to find a partner, which is not necessarily true for women. We are still by and large living in cultures where the male has to bring home the bacon ("a real man knows how to take care of his family") and it will take decades for it to change, if ever.


The phenomenon is cross cultural, meaning it's biological not cultural. Women tend to prefer men who can provide. Men tend to prefer women who are young fertile caregivers. Mythological stories across cultures reflect this general tendency. It's not something we made up recently or locally. It's a global timeless phenomenon.


What options are closed to men?


I think men are looked down on if they go back to study, take an unpaid internship, become house-husbands (IE; non-breadwinners), exclusively attempt a creative endeavour (high risk enjoyable pursuits are seen as self-indulgent and lazy) or if they change career later in life (after 28~).

If I think the same of women, I do not believe that we would typically look down on them or consider them bad people in the same way for being somehow deficient in capability (IE; "a loser") or shirking responsibility if they decided to do those things.

In this sense, those opportunities can be considered effectively closed to them.


I went back to study, took on an unpaid internship, and changed careers later in life. It was awesome and it seems to make a lot of people who stuck to their first career jealous. You may look down on men such as me, but most people appear not to do so.

I admit I don't know too much about the house-husband or the creative endeavor.


I don't look down on you, I consider myself a bit more egalitarian in my principles than that.

Is your notion then that you did not face social stigma? That would be an interesting counter-anecdote to what I said, may I ask where you live?


Looking pretty and finding a sugar-mommy?


It is an option; I remember an article on HEMA that mentioned a participant who was idle and supported by his wife.

But it's a much more competitive option for men than it is for women. (That is, a man attempting to fill this role will face much tougher competition than a woman trying to do the same thing. It's not that the option is competitive with other options.)


These types of discussions where people are very careful to be politically correct seem to always break down.

Of course you will find some outlier situation where one gender can do the same as another. This is not helpful and not the course of discussion. We're talking about what actually happens statistically, now and for generations.

Men are not the same as Woman, they aren't now, never have been and never will be.


I think it's well understood yes. When an option is only available to 1% of the population I believe it is fair to say that it's not really an option.




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