Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

We don't dismiss it. We know it makes life hard for criminals. We just don't care. It's still the financial arm of warrantless global surveillance. It's the government working around its due process restrictions by getting private corporations to do the dirty work. As such, it should absolutely be opposed and resisted on principle.

The USA was literally founded upon principles like these. Look how far from the ideal it's fallen. If you're gonna sacrifice freedom for security, might as well go all the way and become a fascist state.



Also AML is very ineffective despite massive surveillance. It harms consumers more than terrorists

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1...

This is because a lot of compliance is not optimised for maximum benefit (capture terrorists) but is just a tick boxing exercise.

There is also abuse. India is also using AML laws (forced by American led FATF) to crack down political opponents and human rights activists, as per Amnesty

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/india-stop-ab...


> There is also abuse. India is also using AML laws (forced by American led FATF) to crack down political opponents and human rights activists, as per Amnesty

Similar situation here in Brazil. Former president got fined, people started donating money to him to nullify the fine and government started "auditing" those donors. They literally weaponized this AML/KYC bullshit into political persecution.


Of course. That’s an expected outcome if everyone just works within the system according to their incentives.

When it comes to the US, the country literally would not exist if the British had anything close to the modern governments’ abilities to control the money flows.

As in, the revolutionary period Patriot movement would’ve just been AML-ed to death.


I'd call the alternative (unlimited wealth and power for the criminal organizations because the government can't touch it) a far worse outcome. It's always about moves and countermoves.

There's no such thing as the perfect system. So we have to settle for something that at least works most of the time.


It's a politico-technological arms race. Government makes laws, people make technology that gets around the laws. With every iteration, they need to increase their tyranny to maintain the same amount of control over the people. The result is either an uncontrollable population or a totalitarian state.

The only question is: how much tyranny are you willing to tolerate before the government becomes worse than the criminals you want to stop?


That’s not really the case. The government mostly just makes one law that says “hey, bank, it’s your responsibility to know your customer and their source of wealth and God forbid you can’t when we come asking”.

I wonder what proportion of all Americans have actually had any kind of material interaction with KYC/AML. My guess is it’s approximately none of them.


> I wonder what proportion of all Americans have actually had any kind of material interaction with KYC/AML.

Impossible to know since it's illegal to tell someone they're the subject of such extrajudicial investigations. Even knowing about the existence of such laws makes them assume you're a money launderer because of your "technical knowledge".

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38180477


The alternative is to require a warrant, which has so far been a pretty good system.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: