I actually wish programs do not put content in the Title bar area. The title bar area is meant for users to move the Window around.
Try opening Microsoft Word, make the window narrow and drag the window. You have to hunt for a small bit of empty space in the title bar or you have to understand you could drag on the Title text, Search box and the Sign in Username, but not the Auto Save text, Upcoming Features icon, or the Ribbon Display Options icon.
I much prefer what a lot of Linux desktop environments support, which is holding down alt and clicking anywhere on a window to move it. With that + a keyboard shortcut for closing a window you can get rid of title bars on apps entirely if you want. Sadly Windows doesn't support it natively, although there's another comment on this thread talking about ways to make it work.
I love this feature and it's since become indispensable to me. I find it pretty funny that my #1 favorite desktop UI feature is from Linux. One of the first things I'll put on a fresh install of Windows or MacOS is a utility that re-creates this behavior.
That's awesome, I remember when I was a CS student in college I also fell in love with the alt+drag of windows on Linux and I wanted to bring the same on my Windows PC so I wrote this extremely hacky and very unstable tool: https://github.com/Morgawr/EmptyWM
It was one of my first "open source" projects and a great learning experience, I would never recommend anyone to use it because it was full of bugs (also I haven't touched it in like 10+ years) but I used it every day and it was such a great feeling just being able to improve my own life with tools I created myself. :)
I'm hoping that Microsoft just implements it natively eventually - their window snapping/tiling-lite functionality has been steadily getting better so they clearly have people working on this kind of window UX QOL stuff.
There's a Microsoft utility calls powertoys that makes the window snapping/tiling even better with it's Fancy Zones feature. Also has a color picker which someone in this thread was decrying the lack of on windows.
On the flip side, I have become so used to AltDrag behavior on windows, that now I consider KDE alt-drag subpar because it lacks the right-button drag to resize.
Me too. Don't forget about right-click + key to resize the window. I have to use a mac for work and so use Easy Move+Resize to get this same functionality.
Desktop windows should be able to have tabs sticking out of them (independent of whatever window title bar they may or may not have, but possibly showing the title or document name or message), along ANY edge, that you can drag around to the desired edge and position, that help you arrange the windows in piles and rows and columns.
Restricting tabs to the top edge of the window is stupid, because text is much wider than it is tall, so you can fit a lot more labeled tabs in a vertical column along the left or right edge of the window, than in a horizontal row along the top or bottom edge of the window. The tabs you get along the top edge of Chrome are useless when you have a lot of tabs opened, because all you can see are the icons, and none of the labels are visible.
That way the tabs are all visible even when the window isn't, and they afford a very easy way to see all the window titles at once, bring the window to the front, drag it around, and pop up pie menus to do things like push it to the back or front (down/up gestures), iconify it, make it full screen, and other window management commands.
>HyperTIES browser and Gosling Emacs authoring tool with pie menus on the NeWS window system (1988)
>HyperTIES is an early hypermedia browser developed under the direction of Dr. Ben Shneiderman at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. This screen snapshot shows the HyperTIES authoring tool (built with UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor, written in MockLisp) and browser (built with the NeWS window system, written in PostScript, C and Forth). The tabbed windows and pie menu reusable components were developed by Don Hopkins, who also developed the NeWS Emacs (NeMACS) and HyperTIES user interfaces. (Sorry about the quality -- this is a scan of an old screen dump printed by a laser printer.)
Tabbed windows in combination with pie menus are the ingredients for a great window manager.
Ok as a compromise perhaps developers can show custom content in the title bar for a few seconds after startup. That way, the developer can show that they have mastered control of that area, while the user can still drag the window. Win-win.
Windows has pretty decent keyboard shortcuts for manipulating windows‘ positions, though. Clicking and manual window manipulation should very rarely be necessary, shouldn’t it?
I also dislike how apps are now disabling the classic win32 app icon in the top left corner. If you click on it, you get a menu with window management options and double clicking it closes the window. It’s so burned into my muscle memory as the way to close a window I get frustrated when apps hide it.
About 15 years ago, I remember being aghast at Skype hijacking the X in the top-right, minimizing itself to the taskbar instead of either exiting or minimizing to the system tray. Because there was a clear standard action that was intended by that interaction, and Skype had gone out of its way to override that standard action.
I won't say I'm not annoyed at it. When I want to switch back to the Linux partition and Windows instead decides to spend half an hour installing updates, it becomes another reason not to switch to Windows the next time.
Well, here's an AHK script for those that want to move away from depending on the titlebar drag. Use Alt+Shift+Mouse drag anywhere on ANY window to move it on Windows (puns unintended):
I would paste to gist.github.com but the corporate overlords won't let me
If you already have a script running at startup and all that, you can save this as a standalone file called e.g.
winmove.ahk and add the following to your existing script:
I have something similar in my Linux setup, Win+LMB anywhere on a window drags it, Win+RMB resizes. Never used a title bar again, highly recommend if you can get a similar setup.
For moving things around across monitors & snipping them to specific half of desktop I personally use Winkey+[shift]+arrows shortcuts, I recommend you check it out if you haven't already! I honestly don't remember when was the last time I needed a window with custom size. Maybe when placing 2 windows side by side? But even then, the OS recognizes that I want to see 2 windows at the same time and adjust sizes of both windows...
Same thing with, e.g., firefox on ubuntu. Not only do you have to hunt for free space, but because of visual design (in turn because of vanity and frivolity, IMO) it's not clear where it is until you mouse over it and display its highlighted color. The "close" button barely even changes color on the default theme, so god forbid you single-click it. And tabs can accidentally be dragged, rather than just failing to drag the entire window.
This next part is more of a funny absurd story than a complaint, but I once had a recurring bug where the browser UI was shifted down a hundred or so pixels from the top of the window, replaced by some flat "blank" color. But the interactions were still taking place in their expected areas. So in order to fix that, I had to hunt around with my mouse at the top of the window, look for UI elements to become highlighted in the middle of the window, and then move left or right until I was confident I was over the title bar (which I couldn't know for sure, since it itself doesn't highlight).
The most basic of window operations shouldn't require a hotkey.
Rearranging windows on MacOS and Windows now requires video game precision aiming. It is absurd.
What's more, every app places things in different parts of the title bar, so I have to search for "where to click" based on which app window is up. Absurd.
The move to controls in the title bar is absurd. It used to be Windows had standard chrome, title bar, then menu, toolbar, then content area. Now days it is the wild west what UI elements are where.
The most basic of window operations wants to be bound to a hotkey because it's a basic window operation and there should be easy and quick access to it. Linux does this by default and I find it's an indispensable feature.
The most basic of window operations should have a visual affordance right in the UI because they're basic and no one should have to pause and ask themself "how do I move/resize a window?"
Remember your Bruce Tognazzini. Shortcuts are just that: shortcuts. They are NOT your primary interface. Everything should be visible and usable with just the mouse.
It's for this kind of nonsense that I have "alt-space -> s -> down -> right" burned into my fingertips followed by moving the mouse cursor to resize a window deterministically (along with "alt-space -> m -> any arrow" for move, doubly useful to "rescue" an off screen window)
Default behavior for Windows applications (since 3.x, I think). Alt-Space brings up the Window menu.
Some odd-ball apps will replace it with their own menu, but few apps go to the effort to override the default shortcut it, even if they otherwise hide it.
Works on windows for me. Also never really thought about this for rescuing a stuck window, I've always used winkey + arrow keys and kept mashing buttons until it appears on one of my monitors :P
Gnome doesn't have menu accelerators in the window menu though, so "alt-spc n" does nothing: the alt-spc brings up the window menu, but the n doesn't activate "minimize". This interaction not functioning in Gnome keeps me off Gnome entirely.
super+h minimises. pretty sure you can make it anything you want.
if you're looking specifically for "alt-spc n" to minimise I'm sure you can find a way to make that work - but why? to retain muscle memory between windows and gnome?
Random sorta related complain: at work when I'm using two different-sized screens, sometime when doing a click and drag to move a fullscreen window from one screen to the other, it's not the top one that's going to get dragged, but instead one 'below' it. Really annoying
Hard disagree. Vertical space is a scarce resource and I hate when it's used for dead space I can't get rid of or use productively. Alt-drag is the way to go.
Vertical space should not be scarce. 16:9 or worse display is the root issue. Framework has a 3:2 and it is lovely though a bit glossy for my taste. Portrait external is another option.
Both on my main machine at home and in the office, I have a 32" 2560*1440 screen and a 24ish 1080p (they work out more it is the same pixel pitch) beside it, which I often effectively use as three portrait screens, sometimes using FancyZones so that the divide on the 32 isn't right in the middle. The setup is a bit tall when sat thought, potentially causing neck strain, but I tend to use the standing desk in up position so that isn't an issue. Tall screens are much nicer than landscape IMO.
The Windows style for bars (both title and status) is way too large. Ditto for the task bar.
It's no wonder people are tempted to not use status bars, and shove as much as possible at the title. If applications could exploit the task bar, they would too.
(Anyway, you don't need an entire bar for system interaction. But applications aren't designed in a way that allows this.)
The older I get, the more I respect bigger user interface elements and text.
It's not even failing eyesight either; I'm still in my mid 30s and have great eyesight and dexterity. I've come to respect bigger interface elements because they are quicker to work with.
I don't have to peck for a title bar if it's there, big and empty in front of me. I don't have to hunt for a scroll bar that hides itself and reveals a 1px wide sliver if I hover over it just right, if the scroll bar is big and always visible. I don't have to aim my mouse like I'm playing a fucking sniper in a fucking FPS if the buttons are clearly texted, colored, bordered, and large.
Being able to /just fucking use the interface/ with broad motions is a fucking godsend. The trend of minimalism, hide-everything, gray-on-white interfaces gets in my way and wastes my time and nerves.
Unfortunately, the designers all seem to have 72" 8K professionally color-calibrated monitors and a $1000 mouse, and think if it works for them that's good enough.
I saw the start of this in the mid-2000s when the web trend was for grey-on-grey 8px fonts. I went to the designer and asked what the heck he was thinking and he showed me his screen; and yeah it was kinda legible there. Still bad design.
Nowadays the trends are flat UI where you don't even know what's clickable/actionable, hidden things that only appear when you mouseover them, and on touchscreens, secret functions that only trigger if you swipe in just the right way with just the right number of fingers in just the right pattern.
Design has just been getting progressively worse and worse ever since 2000/Windows XP.
> Unfortunately, the designers all seem to have 72" 8K professionally color-calibrated monitors and a $1000 mouse, and think if it works for them that's good enough.
Years ago I came across a project developing software for use by soldiers (maps, messaging, that sort of thing). The devs made really tiny icons for the various map symbols. One day an actual soldier came in with a ruggedised terminal and asked the devs to demo the software on it, using combat gloves. Needless to say it was unusable and there was a great gnashing of teeth.
The same project also gave rise to the best bit of user feedback I've ever seen. At an exercise where the software was being trialled, the commanding officer asked one of the soldiers what he thought of the software. He replied (in a northern English accent) "The fucking thing is fucking fucked, sir", and the trial was cancelled about ten minutes later.
The larger the elements that you don't use all the time, the smaller all the other ones have to be.
If you have large high resolution screens, you won't miss the space, but you can't blame people for optimizing their own applications for the screens most people use.
You're telling me I can't afford an 8 pixel wide scroll bar on a fucking 1920 pixels wide monitor?
Meanwhile nearly every article nowadays has a useless header image that takes up the entire screen, pushing the content out of view until scrolled down.
Give me nice and thick title bars and window borders, give me wide scroll bars, give me ginormous buttons with proper borders and textual descriptors. Minimalism is nonsense if critical contextual information is denied.
> If you have large high resolution screens, you won't miss the space, but you can't blame people for optimizing their own applications for the screens most people use.
Have you seen the new Microsoft calculator ? (i.e. calc.exe).
It seems to be designed to be operated by spear throwers from 100 foots away.
It's not, or at least it wasn't prior to ~Win8 or so. Yet monitor resolutions have steadily increased, so perhaps it's a reasonable on with a huge monitor.
Anyway, you don't need an entire bar for system interaction
Having to click on a tiny area to move a window, instead of a relatively wide rectangle, is a huge regression.
#/media/File:HyperTIESAuthoring.jpg){kind=link}
Try opening Microsoft Word, make the window narrow and drag the window. You have to hunt for a small bit of empty space in the title bar or you have to understand you could drag on the Title text, Search box and the Sign in Username, but not the Auto Save text, Upcoming Features icon, or the Ribbon Display Options icon.