Yeah, I've never really seen the appeal. Wires are just so reliable. I am always in meetings with "sorry, my headphones died, can you repeat that" or people mysteriously vanishing because their laptop can't charge as fast as Zoom draws power and their computer just dies. I have a wired mic, headphones, and power, and it just never breaks.
Wireless is just temporary, if you have wireless headphones, you have to plug in a wire to charge them. If your computer has a battery built in, you have to plug it in every day to charge. So it's just an extra chore that makes your life worse. Not that exciting.
Maybe everyone fantasizes about being a digital nomad. I do not. I have a great desk, chair, keyboard, and 3 monitors. I couldn't work without them. If I want to see the world, I'll go do that without bringing my computer. A vacation with your computer is just work.
A question I'm asked is "what if there's a power outage" but we have had about 10 total minutes of power outage here in Brooklyn in the 10 years I've lived here (during Hurricane Sandy). My thought is I just won't do any work if there isn't any power. We waste an hour a day dealing with wireless not working, 10 minutes every 10 years is no big deal. ("But what if it's the big one!?" Then my ISP's backup batteries will also be drained and I still can't work.)
>I am always in meetings with "sorry, my headphones died, can you repeat that" or people mysteriously vanishing because their laptop can't charge as fast as Zoom draws power and their computer just dies.
You're missing the point. Wireless technology failing is a fantastic excuse to get out of Zoom meetings!
I like spending time around my house, sometimes in garden, sometimes around a coffee shop, some work/some socializing/free time.
This can't be possible (at least practically) with a wired setup. I've almost never ran out of battery on my laptop or headphones and never have issues with Wi-Fi (worst case I have wireless hotspot on phone anyway).
I don't see any problem with a wireless setup other than convenience, where the extra capacity/reliability of wires isn't needed 99.9% of the time anyway.
I know the potential "problems" in the article but I've never encountered them.
Literally never.
I'm actually quite surprised that people still have problems with wireless devices in this age.
Even if I had a desk, I'd probably only plug my laptop to prevent battery cycles (and to keep ready for when I wanted to move) but would never bother with Ethernet, or a wired mouse, or headphone jack for example. Any additional latency/performance problem is imperceivable for daily tasks (unless I am a professional esports gamer or trying to download a huge blob over a gigabit connection as fast as possible, which is probably not 99.9% of people do).
You basically say that you don't care about latency/performance loss, but are surprised that people still have problems. Maybe because these persons do care?
While downloading/uploading something there will be no practical difference between Wi-Fi and Ethernet unless you are on a superfast Gigabit fiber.
While on a Zoom meeting the latency introduced by Bluetooth, while slightly perceivable, isn't of an issue over the latency of being connected over the web itself.
Any wireless system would have more or less be less performant than a wired equivalent. What I'm saying is that for 99% of the people in 99% of daily use cases, that difference wouldn't matter.
I have about a 300 Mbps connection with my ISP. The gateway/AP provided by the ISP is located on the second floor of the house. On the first floor, the connection is degraded to the point streaming will occasionally stutter.
On the second floor the difference in speed tests going through cable vs 10 ft. away through one thin wall on my gaming pc is 250 Mbps -> 24 Mbps. There can absolutely be a practical difference in daily use.
Most people do not have multiple APs, most people are not getting APs other than what is provided by the ISP.
Well the problem is your access point, not a vague 'wireless'. I can max out my internet connection through a couple walls. And while I had to get my own AP, I would have had to get my own cable if I wasn't doing wireless. They didn't include any that can reach between rooms.
Multi stories have that problem (probably because of the shape of antennas designed), it can be easily solved by a gigabit ethernet cable and another AP.
While definitely not ideal, it's a solve-once-and-forget problem.
Wireless headsets are something I understand because I'm someone who never wants to go back to wired headsets. I always hated being tethered to my device by my head. And when they were off my head I would always end up snagging on the cord in some way and pulling them to the floor. And I am often in calls with people where I want to get up and grab something or even do something else. It's very nice to be able to just stand up and walk away from my PC while still being able to hear and talk.
The fact that they need to be charged doesn't matter. My current ones have a swappable battery with the battery that's not in use able to be charged by slotting it into the wireless reciever that sits on the desk. But there's also newer wireless headsets that have 30-40 hours of battery life. So you only need to plug them in overnight (or every few days depending on usage).
> Wireless headsets are something I understand because I'm someone who never wants to go back to wired headsets.
That's also true for me. Ultimately, I think it's a matter of using good judgment. All my major devices - even laptops - run on cables by default, tablets/phones wireless of course. For keyboards and mouses (OK, not WiFi in a strict sense) it depends.
Not in my experience. Ethernet cables have bern reliable, but most have connector latches that self destruct.
HDMI cables are a lottery, and the prize is in no way related to the ticket price.
mini/micro USB connectors go out in about year, depending on use.
All 3.5 mm audio cables seem to have half-life of around 4 months, regardless of price. The only survivour cable came as an extension with old Sennheiser earbuds.
In comparison, I have yet to experience those bad bluetooth earbuds just stopping to work.
[edit] not to mention all the equipment with soldered-in cables that are either too long or too short and cannot be replaced. Hi, homepod mini!
I've got ethernet cables that I've been using since 2011 without them breaking. My headphones are in fact from 2008, all I've got to do is replace the leather pads every 5 years.
I'm still using the USB-C cables from my Nexus 5X today, no problem with them.
With HDMI cables I just buy them, connect them to my GPU and wait for the AMD driver to tell me the maximum bandwidth they support. Super easy way to measure what they'll support and what not. So now I've got a dozen that work at 4K 60Hz HDR just fine.
On the other hand, I've never been able to get a single bluetooth device to sync reliably for more than 5 minutes.
> I've got ethernet cables that I've been using since 2011 without them breaking.
Me too. My problem is going to store and finding such cables, that will last 10 years.
> My headphones are in fact from 2008
That reminds me. When I was complaining about 3.5 mm cables in one music store, how my only good cable is from earphones I bought ~20 years ago, the store person went, like, "of course it won't break if it was made back then! why do you expect to buy something like that now, they ain't now making any"
> On the other hand, I've never been able to get a single bluetooth device to sync reliably for more than 5 minutes.
That sounds pretty unbelievable to me - even the cheapest crappiest Bluetooth devices can pair with the cheapest crappiest USB Bluetooth adapter reliably for more than 5 minute's.
Headphones snag, the jacks get wobbly, theyre fixed lengths (standing desks mean they need to be long enough to move now so they're messy unless you do a bunch of extra work). Ive got problems with interference with my wired mouse that seems to cause stuttering if I use a specific usb port, but maybe once every 2-3 weeks or so the port I do use just doesn't recognize the device so I have to un plug it and plug it back in. Bluetooth may not be perfect but it's tidy, easy to use, well supported, reasonably reliable, and good enough quality for 98% of my use cases.
I’m not sure what’s causing it, but I just can’t get a DualShock 4 to sync reliably. Or the WH1000MX3 from my partner. And with the Jabra headphones I had for work, I always had to use their dongle because it would never sync reliably.
In the end I just gave up and now I use the dualshock 4 with cables. And for headphones, I’ll continue using my wired sennheisers from 2008 (I checked and updated the year in the previous post as well).
The Dualshock 4 gets about a minute at best before I get suddenly random input from it and it stops working. That’s with a genuine Sony DS4, second version.
I actually still use wireless mice, but only the ones with custom dongles.
This post makes me wonder what I do differently. I've some cables wired up here that are easily 5+ years old and I've had micro USB charging ports survive daily plug/unplug cycles for 4 years. My number one cause for cable-related malfunction is when I don't plug something in correctly.
I think the mouse that feasted on cable insulation in my backpack may actually have made it to second place. That's an entirely different story...
Crimping ethernet is a mandatory tech skill for every geeky homeowner. It's not that hard, but there's a few things it takes a while to figure out are really important. Once you do that, you can do it really consistently.
Wireless is nice and all. Powerline ethernet is great when it works out of the box, and a Kafkaesque nightmare when it does not.
You don't even need to crimp unless you really want to. Everything should go to punchdown blocks, either on the room jacks or a patch panel. Crimping is for the patch cables, if you can find manufactures cables for less, no need to make your own.
I suspect the biggest barrier to most homeowners running Ethernet besides not knowing that it’s not that difficult is insulated walls. Running some cables through walls without insulation to the attic and making some drops is not problem, but if you have insulation in the way the job is a lot more difficult.
I do acknowledge that there are many small (big) barriers.
I am on my second home, the first was a condo where I had no access to the "above" or the "below", only the "within".
Phone lines had been run, so I thought I could attach Cat5 to the phone lines and pull them through -- but the previous owner had decided to wall up the phone jacks. No idea where they were, and no access to the "above" part.
Let's just say - I tried a lot of things to figure out where the walled up phone lines were, but never could get to the level of confidence you would want before you start knocking random holes in the wall in a property you own.
Powerline Ethernet was a godsend - for a while. Then one day (7ish years) it started struggling, and eventually couldn't stay connected. To untangle that was going to be hundreds of dollars of hardware and research and/or contractors (side note: have you tried asking an electrician to assess Powerline Ethernet issues?) -- I went wireless at that point.
New house maybe a year back after getting married (yay!). Ran ethernet. Used these guys:
Yeah, I drilled some holes in the wood floor. I am not that rich, nor is my neighborhood, it's a non-issue. Game consoles, NAS devices and work computers have ethernet. Everything else less hungry (or important) like a tablet or mobile has wireless. Life is good.
> people mysteriously vanishing because their laptop can't charge as fast as Zoom draws power and their computer just dies
This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with your “wires are more reliable” thesis, does it? A laptop with onboard devices drawing wall/battery power would be drawing more power than if those devices each have their own separate batteries, right?
>A laptop with onboard devices drawing wall/battery power would be drawing more power than if those devices each have their own separate batteries, right?
Not necessarily, because the laptop has to do additional work transmitting Bluetooth/whatever for the wireless devices. In any case, his thesis appears to include preferring a permanently wired desktop computer to a laptop, as well as preferring wired peripherals to wireless.
Personally I use mostly wired peripherals, but I am a sucker for a wireless headset. Being able to stay on a call while I walk over to the other side of the room to grab something is a great freedom, and plugging the headset in at night is not a big deal.
The "additional work" required to transmit a Bluetooth signal is insignificant compared to the amount of power needed just for the display being on.
My current setup is two USB-C laptops, one for work, one for personal use. When I switch from work mode to My Time Mode, I just swap one USB-C cable from one to the other - all the peripherals follow. Trackpad is wired, keyboard is wired. Headphones wireless - I broke way too many wired headphones by snagging them on crap while moving around.
> The "additional work" required to transmit a Bluetooth signal is insignificant compared to the amount of power needed just for the display being on.
The relevant comparison would be the power required to transmit and receive Bluetooth vs the power required to power a wired peripheral (e.g. mouse, keyboard, headphones) where the wireless version would have its own batteries.
> I am a sucker for a wireless headset. Being able to stay on a call while I walk over to the other side of the room to grab something is a great freedom, and plugging the headset in at night is not a big deal.
Agreed. My last job had a bi monthly all hands meeting at 4pm on a Thursday, I used to just stick my headphones on and make dinner during it.
I don't have too many issues with WiFi, but my house is sort of isolated. I don't have much if any interference from neighbors. If I lived in an apartment complex with 10 or more different WiFi networks in the same airspace it might be different.
Bluetooth on the other hand is an absolute no-go. I have had uniformly bad experiences with it, and refuse to use any device that depends on a bluetooth connection.
I live in a high rise and it still isn’t an issue. The floors and walls block out almost all wireless signals. I can see a handful of networks but they are all on 1 bar strength. On speed tests I can reasonably get 600mbps on wifi.
Maybe.. interestingly I was sitting on the balcony and noticed the video call cutting out. Did a speed test, 6Mbps, I open up the glass sliding door and suddenly it’s full speed again. Kinda shocked a pane of glass was enough to completely cripple wifi.
For me the appeal is that I don't need to figure out how to run wires all over my house, or have them stapled to the walls or something. Wifi works well enough that I would never get to a net positive after considering the ethernet wrangling project inconvenience.
Wireless makes cleaning and vacuuming so much easier. Also means I can walk around while in calls. And it just works well enough that the times it doesn't are more than made up for the times it does work.
WiFi is fine for most consumers, it’s only really a problem if you have a big enough of a house to need multiple APs with wired backhaul, but the cabling isn’t there so you go with wireless backhaul / meshing. Wired backhaul always works better in my experience.
If my house were that big, I would seriously consider only having connectivity in half the house. But fortunately (?) that's a first world problem I don't have.
I absolutely love the idea of working for a month from one place and a month from another. But the problems you call out are very real and I'm honestly shocked that nobody had solved them to take advantage of the fact that relatively wealthy techies can now work from everywhere. Airbnbs will advertise Wi-Fi and maybe a tiny desk with a kitchen chair. I'd pay a premium for a place with Ethernet, a real desk, a real desk chair and a proper, external screen. I worked for a few weeks from my parent's house in Germany, but even that required need to ship them a long Ethernet cable, a screen and keyboard ahead of time. I don't want to buy all this every time I want to work a few weeks remotely.
Reliable, yes. Easy to implement? Not necessarily. If you don't own the property, you might not be allowed to run your own wires. Even if you do own it, some houses make it more difficult/expensive than others to run wires everywhere they need to be (e.g. consider formerly-external walls full of obstructions in an older house). Let's not make the classic HN mistake of assuming everyone's overpaid, able/willing to pay for the privilege of owning the right kind of property. My family does pretty well with a combination of Ethernet, G.hn powerline, and wireless. Then again, we don't subscribe to the Apple groupthink either so MacOS's misbehavior is not an issue for us.
Please. It's not a privilege to run Ethernet any more than having Internet and a laptop is a privilege. A spool is like $100, and you don't need to drill gigantic holes and run 60 wires back to a central drop to a 10 gig switch. I have run Ethernet cables in all my rentals (even when I was working minimum wage), usually only need 1 or 2 at the most. It's not rocket science either. You can go around the outside of your house, just like how a cable TV or phone installer will do it.
Landlords never notice or care. Just don't make it look shitty, they will just think it's a phone jack anyways.
So, your argument is that you casually violated your rental agreements? And you don't see how that reeks of entitlement? It might play well to this particular audience, but people who are less technical and less libertarian than the average HNer might find it less convincing.
idk, man, I rented for 15 years and just used thumb tacks to hold the cable in the corner of the ceiling, wall, floor/wall to push them around to where I needed to be. The hole that levees is quit difficult to see, you just pull the pins and coil the cable and walk away. Renters have been doing stuff like that with cable before internet too. Living in an apartment means you probably can't/don't want to run cables in the walls for someone else, but people have been running cables around apartments for years because you just have to do your thing.
I still find wired Ethernet to be a better experience all around though I do have a pretty decent wireless setup and I do roam quite a bit as well.
He didn't say he violated rental agreements, in fact he explicitly said the landlord doesn't care. It seems it's you who has a chip on your shoulder about HN that you have to cram entitlement into the situation.
You say chip on the shoulder. I say low tolerance for entirely predictable BS.
When I was poorer, even the "minor" cost of cables would have meant even more missed meals. (Fortunately that wasn't an issue because residential internet wasn't a thing back then, but you get the idea.) Losing a security deposit would have been an absolute disaster. I went to court twice to avoid exactly that, and could well have ended up homeless had I not prevailed. Not every landlord is forgiving, and not everyone has the option to prioritize freedom to make modifications over things like location, price, square footage, etc. Being able to shrug off costs and risks that loom larger for others is practically the definition of privilege.
Even among the more affluent, not everyone would put up with visible wires in every room and on every side of the exterior, or with the effort/expense of "doing it right" by fishing through walls with multiple obstructions. They might well prefer the tradeoffs represented by wireless, even if it's not perfect. Do you use landline phones because you never have to worry about being in a dead zone? Different people, different choices. That's all I'm saying, but somehow people who can't conceptualize that other people aren't exactly like them think that any choice other than their own deserves an inquisition.
I you're really paranoid you can use that fancy 3M tape that pulls off cleanly to install some clean cord covers[0] wherever you want. Most come with their own adhesive, that might leave some marks, but it'll come off with a slight scrub.
When you move, just remove them and install them in the next place - or have a chat with your landlord and leave them for the next tenant.
Wireless is just temporary, if you have wireless headphones, you have to plug in a wire to charge them. If your computer has a battery built in, you have to plug it in every day to charge. So it's just an extra chore that makes your life worse. Not that exciting.
Maybe everyone fantasizes about being a digital nomad. I do not. I have a great desk, chair, keyboard, and 3 monitors. I couldn't work without them. If I want to see the world, I'll go do that without bringing my computer. A vacation with your computer is just work.
A question I'm asked is "what if there's a power outage" but we have had about 10 total minutes of power outage here in Brooklyn in the 10 years I've lived here (during Hurricane Sandy). My thought is I just won't do any work if there isn't any power. We waste an hour a day dealing with wireless not working, 10 minutes every 10 years is no big deal. ("But what if it's the big one!?" Then my ISP's backup batteries will also be drained and I still can't work.)