My favorite part of the review is that you can get theft insurance from Vanmoof which will pay for these guys to track down your stolen bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPJk8kTXA8
The optional Peace of Mind theft recovery service costs $290 / €290 for three years. If VanMoof’s Bike Hunters can’t locate your bike within two weeks, they’ll replace it with a bike of similar or better age and condition (first replacement is free, 2nd and 3rd cost $98 / €98).
> VanMoof’s Bike Hunters can’t locate your bike within two weeks
In England, they'd locate the bike in someone's backyard, the police would say "eh, we can't be bothered to get a warrant to search this house just for a bicycle", and that would be the end of it.
The hub motor is excellent. It gives you all-wheel drive which is a bit odd in a bicycle and can catch you out in very slippery conditions (mud on paved towpath by side of river, this is slippery for every bike and every foot, but the front-wheel drive can cause an extra slide).
The battery lasts well. I don’t always need it hiked to full power (setting 4) and am happy to ride it at anything from 1-3. There is a boost button that provides extra oomph for climbing hills or getting away quickly.
It’s not crazy heavy.
It’s a properly vertically-integrated e-bike where everything is designed together and works together. If you want a bicycle with a motor and battery bolted-on, there’s plenty of alternatives. The service has been excellent from VanMoof and the only flaw is that the rear mudguard somehow doesn’t work and my entire back is covered in mud on a wet ride.
I paid full-price and it is an outstanding bicycle. I imagine the S3/X3 will be even better. I resisted the chance to buy one of those early.
As is no ability to 'mod' it for higher speeds (the engine completely cuts out at ~22mph).
Its weight and limited power and speed means that in a drag race with a similar strength rider against a non-electric bike, it will lose off the line and remain slower for a half mile or so until the riders get tired.
It is the tortoise in the race of the hare and tortoise.
The mass of a bicycle and rider is relatively low, so there just isn't much energy to recover. It's not worth the more expensive motor and controller required to do it.
All ebikes on the market today already have the hardware for regen. You simply need to reflash the motor controller firmware to one which shifts the phase of the current by 180 degrees in the motor windings, and suddenly you're regen-ing. It can be as simple as a simple minus sign in the firmware source code, if only you had access to it!.
Some ebikes have firmware mods to do it - others not so much.
The main added difficulty is you can't recharge batteries too fast - and typical braking would produce too much power, and damage the batteries. If you didn't want to destroy your batteries, your regen would have to be pretty tame - more of a "gentle resistance" than "braking".
I totally disagree with your point around power and weight.
In my experience (as a decently fit regular rider riding a lightweight city bike in a city with a big cycling culture and lots of e-bikes around) the only time I don’t get toasted by an e-bike is if the rider chooses not to.
Many basic e-bikes have 250w motors; the Vanmoof’s is apparently more powerful. 250w plus a little extra from the rider is a significant amount of power to put out, in riding terms. Putting out ~300w for more than a few seconds is likely beyond the abilities of most commuting riders. More serious regular riders could likely do it for some minutes, but usually wouldn’t want to do so, dressed in office gear, on a commute.
Last data point: my girlfriend has a big heavy e-MTB with a 250w motor. I have to work hard on a high end CF road bike to keep up out of junctions. Off the line, with the immediacy of the motors power, is actually one of the big advantages.
Do you have a powermeter on your CF bike? If not get one. Apart from being the ultimate training aid, you might find your gf is putting out more watts than bike's manual claims it is. Clipless pedals may help as well allowing faster acceleration by putting more power into the initial pedal stroke.
I would say the average commuter can put out 300w for 10 seconds. They would hate it but everytime you see a commuter straining up a hill, they are putting that kind of wattage. In practice they probably don't because they don't like the strain.
I have a power-meter on one of my road bikes, but not on the one I keep at her place and have ridden against the e-MTB. I know my legs well enough to know I'm putting out well over 250w (probably closer to 400 for a few seconds) if I want to keep up with her initial acceleration.
I've been a clipless pedal user for about 25 years now :)
Then the average e-bike rider could put out 300w + 250w for 10 seconds.
In reality the wattage is nominal, I'm pretty sure the Bosch motor on my bike is peaking at closer to 500w. The manufacturers don't seem to take these figures that seriously unlike the maximum speed cutoff.
I live in Berlin where many people live in low-rise apartments with no elevators and keep their bikes downstairs. I believe this is quite common for many cities in Europe. What I don't understand is how people are charging their bikes. Are they really lugging this thing up multiple flights of stairs and charging it in their apartments every few days? I've heard it's pretty heavy. Or, does it not need to be charged very often?
It depends. As I could charge it both at home and at work, I would prefer to have something integrated and less prone to problems due to water/snow/ice. As I live in a cold country I really appreciate the internal hub with the protected chain which are rare to find on electric bikes under 2000 € (excluding low-quality bikes from unknown producers that have no specs nor website).
There are many companies producing electric bikes right now: I prefer to see a company that tries to do something different targeting a smaller market segments than seeing the same kind of one-size-fits-all model across multiple brands.
The "stolen" argument seems a bit odd. Sure, anything can be stolen.
When purchasing an e-bike a removable battery was a must have. The one I wound up purchasing has a pretty heavy duty locking mechanism for the battery so I never really have to worry about it being stolen.
Non-removable batteries are damaged by cold weather. Bringing it inside keeps it/you safer from theft, cold, and throwing out your back carrying your bike.
I knew that charging under water freezing temperatures could damage the battery, not storage or usage. Could you please share some details? I am evaluating to buy an electric bike, but during winter temperature can get to -20 °C/~0 °F, so it would be helpful to learn more about that.
In most ebikes (but I think pretty much all of them), the battery can be removed. Even in the ebike I own, whose battery is integrated in the frame, one can easily open the frame and take the battery out.
Ebike batteries' range is around 20 to 100 km (account something like 50% less when the battery starts to wear out). I guess that people using it frequently need to charge it at least every other day.
They weigh 19kg. Their range varies from 60km to 150km. Based on my commute, I would have to carry this bike upstairs about once or twice a week. That just seems highly impractical to me.
A friend of mine (in a small german city, not Berlin) keeps a bunch of bikes in a shared basement. I don't know the common situation in Berlin, but he could certainly charge there.
How exactly am I supposed to charge this? Take my bike in the lift up to the office/apartment? Maybe its because I'm not in California, but I've never seen a bike cage with charging stations -- and I'm sure it needs an expensive power brick. Without the ability to bring the battery with you for charging, this is an expensive toy for rich people in suburbia.
The reviewer also listed this as biggest downside to these bikes, so I assume the reviewer did contact VanMoof to ask about it, and did not get a satisfactory answer.
Most e-bikes have a removable battery pack which you can then lug upstairs; a lot more convenient than dragging the entire bike up there.
VanMoof is a dutch company, where bikes are popular even out in the sticks (where garages are common). There are also bike charging stations, but they certainly aren't standard in the bigger cities, which does make it a bizarre choice to make the pack non-removable.
Note that a battery pack, if it is removable, needs a locking system and a bunch of extra material in order to allow the battery pack to not be (easily) stolen and for the system to survive the wear and tear of having it removed so often. Presumably by making the pack non-removable except for servicing, it saves weight and volume.
That makes it impractical for many places, unfortunately :(
I just bring that thing down to the bike parking area when I take out the trash, and charge the bike from that. It holds enough power to fill the bike.
It does add a few hundred to the cost, making it even more expensive. OTOH though I live in the city and use the ebike instead of a car, so I could probably buy a new ebike every year and still save money.
When I looked into getting an e-bike I was amazed on how many brands just where reselling products (in their own name) made by a few Chinese factories that also sold the same bicycle on Alibaba.
I ended up getting a Xiaomi C20 which so far has served me well.
The Cowboy looks a bit better to me with its central motor and removable battery but the Vanmoof looks more comfy. The review doesn't mention anything about that.
Is there any other significant difference between the two bikes? If you bought one of those, which criteria were decisive in your decision?
I've ridden a lot of electric bikes. To me, the hub motor is superior because it provides snappier acceleration which (to me) makes the bike more fun. The extra "kick" helps overcome the extra mass of the ebike and makes it feel like a normal bike.
try both kinds. I found the central-motor style pretty dull and sluggish.
I have the opposite experience as your other commenter. Hub mothers jerk forward, whereas mid drive are smooth. Mid-drive is one less lever to think about as well, the three ways to control speed are motor power level, gear, and pedal speed. I don't need a throttle on top of that. I have a pretty powerful brose motor, and I still have to get used to how little torque you need to apply at a stop light to activate the motor. Having an internally geared hub is nice too, because you can shift while stopped.
I went from a front drive to mid-drive. The mid-drive is much nicer to ride although I should mention it was a much more expensive bike. Also it's easier to deal with punctures on a mid-drive, especially if you are out and about.
I’ve ridden a Van Moof extensively and it’s a very nice bike. Unfortunately, in San Francisco I have yet to find an elegant “normal looking” e-bike that can boost you up the hills without a significant struggle. Yes they help compared to foot power alone, but you still need to be pretty fit.
I understand the fitness requirement is also a feature, depending on your perspective. But for a lot of folks who are older or have health limitations, a nice-looking, easy to ride e-bike that could truly “flatten” San Francisco would be game changing. We’re inching closer to that, and I’m excited to see it when it gets here.
Have you tried a Stromer? They're beasts. I took one up Clipper street hill without too much effort (or I should say it took me up).
Though even the Lyft rental ebikes aren't bad. I had one take my 190lb bulk up the steep hill from Aquatic Park Pier to Black Point (by Fort Mason) without much effort.
I think at least a 500W hub motor is required for SF
how big of a problem is this for most residents though?
when i lived in SF, i rode my (non-electric) bike everywhere. my experience was that there were only a handful of hills that were truly problematic and most of them had nearby flatter bypasses. worst case would be walking the bike up the steepest hundred feet or so.
none of the (tops of) hills themselves were common destinations, unless you could afford to live there, but then you likely could also afford the expense of a high-end bike with a more powerful motor and bigger battery.
Yeah, I bought a Faraday Porteur too, it's hands-down the smoothest ride on an e-bike I've ever experienced. The electric motor on the front wheel while you pedal the back wheel as normal is a unique configuration that means the different drive methods don't interfere with each other at all. On the lower setting the electric assist feels like a gentle breeze is blowing your direction. It was also my first experience with a carbon belt drive, which was a revelation.
It's really a shame that Faraday got bought out and stopped making bicycles, yet doesn't make it clear on their website that they've gone out of business, which is crucial information for anyone thinking about buying one. Some of their custom parts, like the internal battery pack, will be difficult to replace once they run out of inventory.
Today I use a Tern GSD instead (in part because of the cargo capacity, in part b/c of standard Bosch parts), and I'm trying to sell my Faraday, although the pandemic has interfered with that somewhat. If anyone is in the Philadelphia area and wants a Faraday Porteur, please take it off my hands :)
To be fair, the VanMoof S3 in this article also has a front hub motor, so clearly it is not literally unique. That said, I looked for a long time about a year ago, and had difficulty finding any other examples of front hub motors.
That was a lot more powerful than I expected. The drive chain part is interesting, I always assumed it was simpler than that. I like how sturdy it seems.
I want to try one of these out now... I wonder if I can rent one now to see if I like it. I'm curious how it rides in slow speeds in traffic w/ lights, see if I miss the fine control of fixed gear at slow speeds.
I found that maximally raising the handlebars improves it a lot. For the older models this is something you had to arrange at ordering or take the bike to a service center for.
That custom gear box with those plastic gears gives me pause.
I'm planning to buy an ebike sometime, but I think I'd go with something like a RADCity that uses off-the-shelf components. The RadPower bikes definitely don't look as cool, but the batteries are removable, the components are readily available and the price is even lower.
I've tried both - hub motors feel snappy and fun. mid-drives feel sluggish and heavy. With a hub-drive, it's like all the extra mass of the ebike is gone. With a mid-drive, you're very much aware it's there. I'd never get a mid-drive unless they solved that.
I think throttle-only would make them illegal in most EU countries (or, more specifically, they wouldn't be in the same category as bikes anymore); but also, is there really anything implicit in a mid-drive engine that prevents throttle-only?
Interesting point about the chain. What causes more strain, specifically? Essentially, if a certain power is required to go at a certain speed, what makes it different if it's muscle only, or mixed muscle/engine?
It’s not that a mid-drive motor adds more wear, as you note it should be about equal to a bike with no motor. But the hub motor reduces wear, as you are applying less force to the drive train to achieve the same moving power, since the motor applies force at the wheel directly.
I'm a bit wary of VanMoof. I don't like the frame geometry to start with, but they also offer only one frame size which is supposed to fit a wide range of bodies.
This makes me think this bike is marketed at people who perhaps have little previous experience with bicycles.
FTA: ”The S3 and X3 models are essentially the same under the “hood,” differing only by frame types and wheel sizes. The S3 is designed for riders ranging in size from 170 to 210 cm (5 feet, 7 inches to 6 feet, 11 inches), while the compact X3 fits riders from 155 to 200 cm (5 feet, 1 inch to 6 feet, 7 inches)“
IMO, the only weird thing is that the wheels of the smaller model are only 24”.
That's unfortunately not the case for ebikes. I've been looking at ebikes for a while and several highly rated manufacturers only offer 1 size of ebike and are too big for me (e.g. cowboy, propella).
I mean, no they're not, though. They have the same battery and motor etc, but they're obviously different bike frames. Imagine how your body will be positioned on each.
I've got a conversion setup that uses a geared hub motor, apparently the gears are some type of nylon. They're fairly durable, as there isn't a lot of torque on the gear teeth themselves as this is a reduction gear (goes from a higher speed low torque motor to a lower speed at the hub).
I have noticed with mine that there is a bit of a stressful sound from the gears if I apply the throttle from a dead stop, esp. if up an incline. So I typically will start peddling first a couple times then ease on the throttle. Not sure how this would work on a different setup that uses a peddle sensor though.
I tried to find battery specs and all I was able to get was "Battery 504W capacity Integrated LG cell Removable for servicing". Is that a typo and it is actually 504 watt hours or it is battery's rated power?
Your jurisdiction may vary, but often anything higher is classified as a moped and requires a driver's license.
What do you think is a reasonable top speed (or power, the two are related) at which point someone blasting by you in the bike lane feels more like road traffic?
They are booming across most of Europe. Every bike shop I see has at least a couple of models in the lineup, this is a big change from a couple of years ago.
The optional Peace of Mind theft recovery service costs $290 / €290 for three years. If VanMoof’s Bike Hunters can’t locate your bike within two weeks, they’ll replace it with a bike of similar or better age and condition (first replacement is free, 2nd and 3rd cost $98 / €98).