The need to use optimal patterns didn't go away, but the techniques certainly did. Just as a quick example, it's usually a bad idea now to use lookup tables to accelerate small math workloads. The lookup table creates memory pressure on the cache, which ends up degrading performance on modern systems. Back in the 1980s, lookup tables were by far the dominant technique because math was *slow.*
> Back in the 1980s, lookup tables were by far the dominant technique because math was slow.
This actually generalizes in a rather clean way: compared to the 1980s, you now want to cheaply compress data in memory and use succinct representations as much as practicable, since the extra compute involved in translating a more succinct representation into real data is practically free compared to even one extra cacheline fetch from RAM (which is now hundreds of cycles latency, and in parallel code often has surprisingly low throughput).
I don't use a list generally, because I have a fairly fixed path through my local grocery store and I know what I regularly need to stock up on. On occasion however, if I'm unsure, I'll close my eyes and browse the kitchen, pantry and linen closet in my mind's eye, to check the contents of the shelves. As long as the last time I looked at them matches reality, I get a pretty accurate inventory and can usually spot things I'm forgetting.
Recipes are the exception. If I'm cooking something I've never made before, there is no way I'm committing that ingredients list to memory.
I have set path as well but I don’t always know what is there in the fridge or pantry as my partner mostly cooks. So we make the list that I later sort to match my path at the shop. It speeds up my shopping a bit and sometimes I just pick something outside of the list for fun.
The irritating thing to me here is that I actually don't mind the concept of advertising. Mostly it's the implementation. Newspaper ads don't bug me one bit, because they're not physically capable of moving, animating, dancing, and trying to get my attention. They're not physically capable of tracking my habits and reporting them back to the mothership. They're just... there. Passive. Occasionally interesting, or at least pleasantly designed.
If internet advertising was more like newspaper advertising, I wouldn't feel quite so compelled to go out of my way to block it. But no, someone somewhere along the way decided it had to be actively distracting, and track those impressions, and the industry just can't help itself. It's rotten to the core.
They didn't bug me in the 90s but 3 decades of deeply annoying internet ads have kinda made me allergic to them.
I don't think I'll ever stop using an adblocker. Even if ads would become less annoying or if it would become illegal to use an adblocker or something.
The other day I was thinking how pleasant it was to read a newspaper (26 years ago) compared to reading the news online today.
With a newspaper, the paragraph you are currently reading doesn't suddenly jump out of view just because some ad finally loaded or was replaced by a different sized ad. The ads were static and so inoffensive back then, but they still made the newspapers lots of money.
There are downsides to newspapers, of course: they are unwieldy on the train, they kill trees, and they get out-of-date really fast.
If some decent publication could replicate the good parts of a newspaper for a modern tablet device ($0.50 or whatever per issue, the ads are static images and never replaced after the page is loaded, and no jumping content), I think I would pay.
Magazines on the other hand could get annoying, especially with the scratch-n-sniff perfume/cologne ads.
Otherwise, I agree with the bad thing about ads is adTech and not ads themselves. The internet just allowed our worst selves to run rampant with the obvious result coming to fruition.
I don't know, man, glossy magazine ads were glamorous. sure there was stupid stuff, but the comparison between the "one weird trick" era and magazine ads of someone looking cool so you have a positive impression with some brand name is pretty stark.
But do you think the concept of advertising is the best solution to the problem it tries to solve? I have serious doubts.
Sure, 100 years ago you had no other way to make something known, but today with everybody having a smartphone there might be other ways. I always would like to see reviews of stuff from my immediate network of friends (or, let's say 2-3 connections) - wouldn't that be much better? Of course, the whole ad industry will have zero interest to promote something like this, where they loose control and the process might be actually efficient.
Sorta depends on how you define the concept. A sign on the side of a storefront is definitely marketing. If I walk into a department store, every product on the shelf is wrapped in advertising, from its packaging to the brand name to the picture of what the product is for. When I visit Amazon, and start searching for something to buy, every single thing that comes up could be thought of as an ad for itself, since otherwise I wouldn't be able to find it in the first place.
These are contextually relevant ads. Of course they are, right? The task is buying stuff. That's the time, and the place. The best time, really. My wallet is out and I'm ready to go with the purchase.
If it's a little hard for me to discover that a product exists, so that I know to seek it out, I think that's okay. We could do with more curation and less firehose-of-attention in that department. Needing to coordinate those sponsorships ahead of time should act as a stronger filter. The newspaper knowing which ad it is running alongside today's article might not have been such a bad idea. The ones that cheapen out and print nonsense damage their reputation in the process, right?
My options are "fairly loud, low rumbly, mostly full spectrum noise" or "continual, nonstop barking." Only one of these options makes sleep possible. :) I'd prefer quiet, but it's so rare to actually have it.
The second thing that came to mind was paywall evasion. Any time a news article behind a paywall gets posted here, someone in the comments has the archive link ready to go, because of course they do.
The incentives for online news are really wacky just to begin with. A coin at the convenience store for the whole dang paper used to be the simplest thing in the world.
> Limit internet archive for articles that are less than a week old.
I mean this as a side note rather than a counterargument (because people learn to take screenshots, and because what can you do about particularly bad faith news orgs?): Immediate archival can capture silent changes (and misleadingly announced changes). A headline might change to better fit the article body. An editor's note might admit a mistakenly attributed quote.
Or a news org might pull a Fox News [1][2] by rewriting both the headline and article body to cover up a mistake that unravels the original article's reason for existing: The original headline was "SNAP beneficiaries threaten to ransack stores over government shutdown". The headline was changed to "AI videos of SNAP beneficiaries complaining about cuts go viral". An editor's note was added [3][4]: "This article previously reported on some videos that appear to have been generated by AI without noting that. This has been corrected." I think Fox News deleted the article.
I don't see the connection to adding the delay. I think the suggestion was to have a snapshot at time of publication but wait a week to make it public.
The main benefit for me is hiding content I'm actively uninterested in seeing. Shorts are portrait mode content that pretty much never seem to be long enough to discuss anything interesting. I watch on widescreen monitors, so I just don't care for them. There's nothing else to it really.
The strategy I see with the most success in online communities is something to the effect of, "If it appears in the trailer, or what is very obviously the earlygame tutorial area, it's basically fair game. Otherwise use spoiler tags." Some puzzle games are best experienced entirely unspoiled (Outer Wilds) and others benefit from sortof a layered hints approach.
Steam guides for Blue Prince are fantastic about this, and were extremely welcome to me once the RNG nature of the game stopped being exciting and started being a tedious obstacle. There's nothing quite like needing to spend several real world hours to try a puzzle solution that may be a complete waste of time, simply because the game doesn't really like to spawn the needed rooms (in an acceptable configuration) very often.
The giant bugbear in this conversation is always multiplayer. That's because almost all of the big players in that space currently favor rootkits in the form of overly invasive anti-cheat, which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.
If you don't play PvP specifically, the rest of the library is significantly more open to you. Personally I have always favored single player experiences and indie games from smaller studios, and for the most part those run great.
It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.
So if you can go without those games or don't play MMOs that is rootkits then switch to force their hand.
Besides, them installing a rootkit on your machine is not an acceptable practice anyways. It's a major security issue. Sometimes we need to make a stand. Everyone has a line, where's yours?
MMOs are actually fine. WoW, FFXIV, RuneScape, all work great on Linux. They’re not really games that rely on hidden information, are not pvp first and need to simulate stuff on the server anyway, so can verify moves are valid there.
It’s the competitive progression shooters and ranked esports games that go in for the restrictive anti-cheat
Even within competitive shooters there’s still plenty that run great on Linux. 90% of my time spent gaming is on Overwatch or CS2, and I’ve found that both ran significantly better on my Debian 13 installation than they ever did on Win11.
And it's worth noting that CS2 is still the most played game on Steam. It has double the players of the second most played game, Dota 2, which also works on Linux. And that has double the player base of the number 3 game, Arc Raiders, which also works great on Linux.
The idea that you'll be missing out is ill founded. Yes, there are some games that won't work. PUBG, Bongo Cat, Rust[0], and EA Sports FC 26 are the ones on the top 10 multiplayer list. But it's also not like you don't have plenty of massively popular games to choose from.
I'll even say don't switch to Linux, just stop playing these abusive games. Honestly, if you're unwilling to change OSes but willing to do this then people that want to jump ship can. We all win from this behavior. Even you as it discourages Windows from shoving in more junk and discourages publishers like EA from shoving in massive security vulnerabilities like rootkits. I mean we've all seen how glitchy many AAA games are, you really think their other software isn't going to be just as unpolished and bug ridden?
This is true in principle but most gamers are just gonna take the path of least resistance. If they can't play fortnite on Linux (I'm using an example, I don't know if it's actually unplayable on Linux) then they will use whatever OS lets them play.
People have been saying "vote with your wallet" every time gaming companies do something anti consumer like day one dlc or buggy releases (don't pre-order!) or $90 games, but gaming companies continue to push the envelope on what gamers will pay for because gamers keep paying for it.
There's another way. Only a small portion of friends need to change to pull the rest of the group. Pull them to a game that runs on Linux.
Don't do it like "let's play this game because it runs on Linux" do it like "let's play this game because it's fun".
If you want to be the one to lead this change you have to do extra work. Dual boot Linux and find a game that's fun that you can do online. Find the other friend or two in your group that will do the same (at least play the game, Linux is optional but encouraged for this subset). Just play together for a bit, give it a trial run. Then when playing the other game with the larger group say "hey, so and so and I have been playing this game, you guys should play with us sometime". They don't have to install Linux, just play a new game that their friends are already playing. That's why they're there, to play games with their friends. Don't try to get them to switch to Linux, just play games with your friends. You might have a holdout but if most people move then everyone will. But if you want to do that move you have to find what works and at least one other friend to give it a trial (who won't need to do as much work as you). That's how you do it. No crazy scheme and honestly not massive amounts of work either. Just the normal process of finding new games to play with one constraint. It just seems complicated because I stated the process explicitly.
I don't play a lot of online games anymore, but when I did, it wasn't just because friends were playing it. It was because it was fun, it was part of the cultural zeitgeist, it's popular, the community is fun, etc. You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.
I agree. But I think there are a lot of fun games. Plenty of them on Linux.
> it was part of the cultural zeitgeist
This is the harder part, but we are in an age where there are a lot of games. I think you'll be surprised to see the games that do work on Linux[0]. Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam[1] (in order): (1) Counterstrike, (2) Dota 2, (3) Arc Raiders, (5) Terraria, (8) Grand Theft Auto, and (9) Marvel Rivals all have good proton support. What doesn't work in the top 10 are (4) PUBG, (6) Bongo Cat, and (10) EA Sports FC 26. (7) Rust supposedly works, but only on Linux supported servers (smaller user base).
> it's popular,
The point I'm making here is that while you may not get to be part of every cultural zeitgeist, you can still participate in the 3 most popular ones and more than half of the top 10. Frankly, most people won't be able to participate in every zeitgeist for any number of reasons (cost, hardware, restrictions, etc). But I think considering this you don't have to fear being left out.
Maybe you're obsessed with PUBG or Battlefield and then yeah, Linux isn't going to work for you. That's okay! But looking at the numbers, for most people, they can still be a part of all the cultural excitement. It's not going to work for everyone, and that's okay! If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But I want to make sure we can distinguish real blockers from ones Microslop and EA want you to believe in.
> the community is fun
I think this is less of a blocker than you might think. Honestly, in my experience smaller communities tend to be more fun. They develop their own close knit culture. You've been on HN a long time and seen it grow. Isn't that a similar reason you come here?
> You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.
You're right, but again, I think there are fewer blockers than you think. I can't tell you if those blockers are real or not because what is a blocker comes down to you and your personal interpretations of all those variables. But if you're frustrated with Windows and the system, why not give it a try? You don't even have to switch to Linux to pressure the studios to change. Just spending more time playing games like Counterstrike or Arc Raiders than games like PUBG or Battlefield. And if you play more games like the former you make it easier for others that are thinking about making the jump. But hey, if PUBG or Battlefield is your jam and you don't want to try anything else, then no worries. You do you.
There's one more important thing I want to bring up. I think it is important to ask "where is your line?" How much junk can Winblows shove in before you're willing to make sacrifices? Is EA installing a rootkit enough of a security concern where you won't take it? What is? You don't need to tell me what the answers are to these questions. What's important is that you yourself know where these lines are beforehand. The lines are personal and unique to you. People are going to have other lines than you and that's completely fine. I just ask you think about what conditions would cause you to make sacrifices? That way if they happen you can respond.
> Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam
Note that this is skipping over some extremely popular games which aren't on Steam. Notably Fortnite, Roblox, League of Legends, Valorant, and everything else from Riot Games, none of which work on Linux. From the Steam examples there's also some grey areas, GTA5 singleplayer works but multiplayer does not, and Counterstrike works on official servers but not on Faceit servers, where a lot of serious competitive play happens.
You're right to bring up the limits, but I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say that everyone can and should switch. But I am saying that the costs are probably less than one might think.
The costs of switching can only be answered at the individual level. No one can answer for you. But people can state their experiences and help you understand the costs and benefits.
Let's make sure we can accurately understand the costs and benefits and differentiate from imaginary ones.
I also said that you can take a stand without switching to Linux. Maybe the costs are too high for you right now. But maybe the costs of meeting up with your friends to play Dota rather than League is easy. At the end of the day the costs are due to the network effects. You can reduce those costs slowly and make it easier for others to jump ship without you needing to, which makes it easier for you to jump ship in the future if things change. The same is true for social media. Maybe you can't break from Instagram as you have too many contacts where that's your only way to communicate with them. But you can still encourage others to text you, Signal message you, or whatever. This still reduces the power of that network.
Here's the thing: the less sticky platforms are the better it is for everyone. I'm not going to tell you that you aren't going to have to put in more effort, but I will criticize you if you think that effort is insurmountable. I will also say that this is also part of our social duty. If something like using Signal instead of Instagram to communicate with your friend because they want to is "too hard" for you, then I envy the life you have where such trivial actions are your biggest concerns. If trying new games with friends who want to try new games is "too much" for you, then I think you should question if you're an addict.
I'm not saying you have to switch. I'm not saying you have to play certain games and not others. But you do have to be open to changing things and recognize that if you don't then you're creating a doomed self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then the enshitification and dystopia is on you. If you are unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then you have no right to complain as you are the one preventing that change. But also, if you don't have any of those concerns of enshitification and tech dystopia then you have every right to stand your ground and not be inconvenienced. But I want to make the conditions clear. We live in a society. The society has a duty to you and you have a duty to the society. You don't just get to take and give nothing back.
First off, a hell of a lot more of those top 50 are unplayable. But more importantly the thing that you are ignoring is that every single one works on Windows. By choosing to use Linux you are choosing to not be able to play these games and an unknown number of future games for... what? If you only have a PC to play games with your friends, what could possibly be more important to you than the ability to play games with your friends?
This isn't about me though. I game on Linux. I love it. My original reply was to this in your comment
> It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.
The whole point of this subthread is that companies are not going to make Linux compatible games as long as there are customers OK with installing root kits on their companies to play their games. And most gamers are ok with that line being crossed. It sucks for the rest of us, but capitalism gonna capitalism.
I apologize for misunderstanding your comment, but I hope mine still stands to help others recognize the issues you brought up aren't as large as some may actually believe. I agree with you, companies that abuse us, the users, want to amplify that fear. It empowers them. It's why I am encouraging anyone who reads my comment to ask themselves where that line is. Personally I'm with you, the line has already been crossed. I've made the move and don't regret it for a second. Nothing changes for the better when no one is willing to take the first step.
The market for multiplayer games, shooters especially, is already a mess, because people don't want to play a game that doesn't have an infinite pool of players to matchmake into, or a game that doesn't have all their cosmetics, or... etc. etc.
So this ends up being easier said than done. I've had success, but that's my friend group out of however many.
Try to find a shooter with a playerbase that doesn't use EAC/etc. - it's a crapshoot, unfortunately. You've got Valve's stuff and one or two outliers, but if those don't meet your group's genre needs, you're whomped.
> Don't do it like "let's play this game because it runs on Linux" do it like "let's play this game because it's fun".
Indeed! i have some online and irl buddies who aren't on linux that i've got playing games like veloren with me, simply because they are good games. i've got loads of hours in games like veloren, luanti, xonotic, pokeMMO, and osu! for example lol and encourage everyone to check those games out if they're up their alley. :)
You assume I have friends. Or at least, friends that care about video games.
Besides, more likely is that I leave to do my own thing, 0-1 peers joins me for a bit, then we all kinda drift away. Friendships in this era are much more ephemeral.
I want to step away from the conversation about Linux
Honestly, I'm disheartened to hear this. Frankly, those don't sound like friends, or at least close friends. If a friendship can evaporate by the simple act of wanting to try another game, then it barely seems like a friendship and it seems like those will evaporate as soon as the next popular game comes about. I don't want to tell you to abandon your existing friends but I would encourage you to find friends you can have stronger bonds with. To have closer relationships. Hard truth is you need to put in work to make this happen. It doesn't matter what games you play or on what platform: everyone deserves to have deep human relationships. I really do hope you can find some friends. I hope the friendships you do have are stronger than you have conveyed because frankly, as humans, we all need close friends.
That's most how most of my life has been in a nutshell; it isn't limited to games. Schools,college, old coworkers. A lot of the glue comes undone the moment you need to move on. I'm a late Millenial, but the advent of social media among Gen Z gave us the ability to connect more intimately than ever over the most niche topics. But at the cost of losing the deep bonds you'd normally form then bundled with a community based on proximity.
I've had long conversations with some former guild mates yet can't point you to a name or face. I know quite a few never even lived in my country. But things loosen up once the game shuts down or one of us needs to move on. It's neat in some ways, hollow in others.
On the larger scale, it's why local community is also weaker than ever. No one really puts and effort to come down to community events, or they may come once or twice and never again. Those gatherings are also less frequent than ever, often once a month. You can't really form a deep bond meeting once a month. So meetups end up frustrating in their own way (at least, the tech meetup. Maybe a run club would be different).
I've even heard notions that it's easier to find a mate than a close friend these days. I can completely believe it.
I'm also in my 30s so I get it. The only real advice I can give is that it just takes more work to maintain friends as we get older. I had to be the one reaching out rather than waiting for others to reach out to me.
The other thing is recognize where friendships came from. Most of it was just being physically near people. Sitting in the same classrooms day to day. If work doesn't create that space (or isn't good enough or you want to distance from work) you need something else that does the same thing. Join a club. Set up weekly beers with your friends. Or literally anything that puts you in the same physical space with the same people, routinely. A friend of mine gets together with his gamer friends once a year and they socialize off the game too.
The convenience of social media is also its weakness. The ease of connecting makes it just as easy to disconnect.
Real friendships require work. That's true of any relationship. I'll tell you my friends can be annoying and exhausting, but I love them and I'll gladly put up with their shit to keep them around. After all, who else is going to put up with my bullshit? lol
>Real friendships require work. That's true of any relationship.
indeed. Perhaps that is part of my frustration. Friendships can also be a 2 way street, and it can feel like I'm putting in a lot more effort than the other party when it comes to trying to form them. I don't expect 50/50 effort, but when it's 95/5, are they a friend or simply a familiar guest?
Maybe I need to accept that the tech circles here aren't going to have that deep bond and expand. But I'll admit that the job hunt also slowed down my efforts to break out of my comfort zone.
I feel your pain, as someone in their mid-30s, and also a new dad. It's trite to say that it's hard to make friends in your 30s but it really is true. Between career, family, and just day-to-day life, it's really hard to form connections that are any more than just superficial.
What works for me is finding communities. I participate in Toastmasters, which meets every week (one meets twice a month), and it's a good way to make connections with people and get to know them better. It's also fun because there's people of many walks of life. Retirees, college students, business owners, executives, everyone in between. It's a great way to meet people I probably wouldn't have otherwise met in tech circles.
i like a few multiplayer shooters, fortnite being one of them. i also exclusively use gnu/linux on my machines, so i got around this issue of games like fortnite/battlefield/etc issue a long time ago by simply doing what i've always done for years, playing these on xbox. i even 'stream' these games to my linux machine from my xbox if i want to play them from the computer with the xbox controller, and can join and create xbox live parties through the xbox web interface.
i only do this for those couple of games i play with friends that won't support linux because of the aforementioned rootkit it wants to run on windows machines. console for those games, and all my other games run happily either through steam+proton or natively on linux, and there are a fair few FOSS games with amazing multiplayer. i love luanti, xonotic, openarena, veloren, etc, and play them frequently with some friends. :)
1. The audience is mostly kids. They can't buy any premium games easily (and is the lens for the rest of my points)
2. Network effects. Works as well on them as any of us. Especially in a world that makes it more and more hostile to have them meet IRL.
3. It's a generation raised on "forever games". They are used to games they pick up and will continually play for years. Games that will always provide new stuff for them. They fundamentally have different habits from Millenials.
4. Mobile support. So many kids play on mobile. So they are even more isolated from the consple market.
I empathize with the question. But you are essentially asking *why do people want to use instagram and not any other one of millions social media app?*
Even this framing is silly, if you have a PC to game there are not enough pros to choose Linux. You are giving up the ability to play some popular games and increasing the amount of effort required to play another chunk of them in exchange for what? A snappier file browser? Fewer anti-consumer dark patterns? It's not about "path of least resistance" it just flat out isn't worth it.
This is a gross reduction of why people choose Linux. People don't choose it just for a snappier file browser and fewer anti-consumer dark patterns.
1. games that install what amounts to be rootkits on my computer are not ok
2. windows potentially spying on my data without my consent is not ok
If you wanna label these as dark patterns, that's fine, but let's not pretend that this behavior is ok.
I like playing games. But I like privacy and security more than playing games, which is why I have a linux gaming machine and a PS5. Some people would rather just play games and not worry about the other stuff, which is understandable for the reasons you mentioned.
This is overestimating the amount of effort involved to game on Linux, imo. It is true that there are a couple games using kernel-level anticheat which preclude their working on linux, but for the most part the effort required to play games on Linux now is zero if it's a Steam game and almost zero elsewhere.
Delta Force used to work but also doesn't anymore (still marked Bronze), people are tinkering with config files but nothing seems to work https://www.protondb.com/app/2507950
GTA V public lobbies don't work, requires you to tweak launch options, disable battleeye anticheat, seems to just not work for some people. https://www.protondb.com/app/271590
It goes on and on these were just from the first few games sorted by player count. Much of the tweaking seems to be different person to person, sometimes it just works sometimes it's Nvidia's fault, sometimes it's something totally different. There's a "recommended for tinkerers" option for reviews. To be clear, every single one of these works right out of the box first time on Windows.
PROTON_DISABLE_D3D12: Disables DirectX12
There are also D3D11, D3D10, D3D9 options too
PROTON_HIDE_NVIDIA_GPU=1: Tells the game you have an AMD GPU instead of Nvidia
The default setting is that Proton hides the GPU, so this option here is superfluous.
-force-d3d11: forces usage of DirectX11
This is already going to happen because you disabled DirectX12
People are copy pasting settings and sharing but not actually looking at any docs. Disabling DirectX12 is going to give you a pretty good success rate of making a game work if it doesn't work out of the box.
Also, let's be clear about what those rankings mean on ProtonDB
Native: Just works
i.e. Devs are cool
Platinum: Just works (but is using Proton)
i.e. Valve has got this shit handled
Gold: Works but you either need to use proton experimental or change an option that someone has already figured out.
i.e. Community has figured it out, Valve is tweaking.
Note that many people are on Proton Experimental by default so possibly that's why it "just works" for them.
Silver: Very likely to work with a setting someone has listed.
i.e. Community and Valve working on it
Bronze: People are figuring it out, leave it to your friends that know Linux
i.e. Sorry, you're probably out of luck. Leave it to the tinkerers
Borked: Publisher is actively working against the community.
i.e. EA hates you
I'm not trying to say everything works on Linux. It doesn't. But let's also not pretend that it is worse than it is. That's the same error in the other direction. Linux is not the right choice for everyone, but it is a good choice for many people.
You're implying that 'clicking the cog icon > properties > and then copy pasting some text into a text box' is overly burdensome. To be frank, if you believe that then not only is Linux not for you, but neither are computers, and I really really am curious why you're on a website called "Hacker News".
I did this and was happily Windows-less for quite a few years. I ended up building a PC with a big GPU and so I switched back to PC gaming with a Windows installation alongside Linux, but I still think the console route is a great option.
> which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.
It's more that there's no sensible way they could do it even if they wanted to. Emulating the Windows kernel internals is well beyond the scope of what WINE is trying to do, and even if they did do it, there would be no way for the anticheat vendors to tell the difference between the AC module being sandboxed for compatibility versus sandboxed as a bypass technique. Trying to subvert the AC in any way is just begging to get banned, even if it's for beingn reasons.
As a competitive old school arena FPS guy, I have also had a very hard time getting the same smoothness and low latency (input, output, whatever it is) on Linux. The games I play are very fast and twitchy, and milliseconds matter.
There seems to be too many layers and variables to ever get to the bottom of it. Is it the distro itself? Is it a Wayland vs. X11 thing? Is it the driver? The Proton version? Some G-SYNC thing? Some specific tweak that games based on this game engine needs?
I've had better luck since the switch to Wayland. I don't play many FPS games but mouse input & overall smoothness for strategy games has been great. Check your mouse settings, you might need to set a higher USB sample rate. Piper is a frontend for adjusting them.
Yes, most likely. Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11, whereas KDE and GNOME's wayland sessions are both buttery smooth out of the box.
Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.
> Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11... Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.
Weird. I don't use KDE's compositor, and -AFAIK- WindowMaker doesn't have one. When in either KDE or in WindowMaker I don't have stuttering with either fullscreen, borderless "fullscreen", or windowed games... everything is as smooth as it is in Windows. Having said that, I do know that -when using KDE- some fullscreen games get jittery as all shit if a notification pops up and remain that way until the notification disappears. I expect that that performance problem would go away if I was using the compositor... but I don't want to spend the VRAM on it.
I use AMD graphics cards, so it might be an Nvidia thing that you're seeing. It also might be a "Your Linux distro simply stopped shipping good xorg installs" thing. I'm running Gentoo Linux which continues to ship updated versions of xorg and supporting software. [0]
[0] I've heard people running Debian and Debian-derived distros report X11 behavior that absolutely does not match what I've been seeing for years... so some percentage of the "X11 can't do $THING" when it really, really can must be coming from distros that ship either dramatically out-of-date or severely crippled xorg installs.
Odd. Every few months, I see a new xorg-server version in my distro's package manager.
> That means regressions are entirely ignored.
Should I ever actually have a problem, and it's something that I can't (or CBA to) fix, and my distro's maintainers don't want to try to fix (and then tell me that upstream will never fix), then I'll look more closely at XLibre. XLibre may or may not be a dumpster fire at that point, who knows? If it is a dumpster fire, then I'll look around for other alternatives.
> It's shocking that people still install X11 as a default in [TYOOL]
Nah. It works fine for what I'm doing. I don't do anything that depends on Wayland. The shocking thing would be if I were to waste a ton of time chasing the new shiny... especially when those responsible for the new shiny have been lying for the past 10+ years about how it's ready for everyone's general use. [0]
[0] Perhaps it's ready now, after nearly eighteen years in development. I can't rely on the statements of those responsible for the project to tell me, and I CBA to go searching for (and evaluating the trustworthiness of) information on the topic.
> Odd. Every few months, I see a new xorg-server version in my distro's package manager.
Yea these are security updates but the eco system requires a lot of desktop manager scaffolding in user space. That has basically stopped. It's baffling why you would run X11 today. The X11 emulation layer for Wayland works great too by the way.
Just as one example when you screen share from discord or zoom or Google meets there's now a pop-up that asks you to select the screen or window you wish to latch on to for streaming. This provides some security. With X11 anything can just take a screenshot at any time. Sure that's convenient but so many apps don't even support X11 anymore. As someone that made the switch three years ago I get how you might think the old system is better but in reality you haven't tried the new one so you don't really have a way to compare. I noticed so many quality of life fixes that I can't even imagine running X11 anymore.
It works fine for what I'm doing. I don't do anything that depends on Wayland.
> Sure that's convenient but so many apps don't even support X11 anymore.
Really? If true, I don't seem to run any of them. I've certainly not noticed anything I've been running over the past couple of decades suddenly stop working on X11. Given that QT, GTK, FTLK, and other cross-platform GUI toolkits support X11, these must be particularly special programs.
> Just as one example[, screensharing...]
Sure, it is a bit nicer to be able to control which windows which other programs can see. I've been watching the slow-moving, many-years-long shitstorm that has been "actually get screensharing that works the way ordinary people need it to". It's been quite a show.
Thing is, I do know that the X Access Control Extension was standardized in ~2006 and updated through 2009 with the aim to make additional fine-grained access control modules [0] easy. I don't know how long it would have taken to use what existed (or even write something new) and update the major Desktop Environments with tooling to manage it... but I suspect it would have taken far less than seventeen years.
> I noticed so many quality of life fixes...
I'm sure that were I 16, I'd believe that I cared very much about that. Now, -mumble decades later- the fanciest things I want are OpenGL and Vulkan support with performance at least on par with what you get from Windows, a window manager that lets me Alt+mouse-button to move or resize a window, functioning global hotkeys that I can command to run arbitrary programs (and that I can permit any arbitrary program to hook into... permanently), and functioning screen-sharing (that can I can permit any arbitrary program to hook into... permanently). And it's so, so silly for me to feel the need to mention anything other than Alt+mouse-button. You'd think that the rest would be "table stakes", but the Wayland development process has demonstrated that many folks disagree.
[0] Ones that could -for instance- prevent undesired keyloggers and screenshot tools
The problem is as soon as you run something new and it doesn't scale properly in X11 you're gonna be making a bug report instead of using what everyone else is using. Currently just with the screen sharing thing it's not even just graphical. There's also updates for Pipewire so you can select the audio output you wish to stream with your video feed. That dialog simply doesn't exist at all in X11. You probably don't even know it exists. It's been feature complete now for YEARS. There's a reason that Valve is using Wayland on SteamOS. It's cause it's feature complete now and they are working on stuff like HDR which won't work at all on X11. I'm guessing that X11 support will start to be dropped in the next few years by major code bases. It's hard for me to even explain some of the bugs I saw with X that disappeared overnight when I switched to Wayland. You talk about OpenGL and Vulkan support but hilariously that's what I'm trying to explain to you has *better* performance now than even Windows.
Just basic stuff wayland has that X11 will never have:
- No screen tearing by default
- Proper vsync
- Lower latency for input → display
- Per-monitor refresh rates (144Hz + 60Hz works correctly)
- Fractional scaling is actually correct (no blurry hacks)
> The problem is as soon as you run something new and it doesn't scale properly in X11...
QT, GTK, FLTK, and friends handle scaling correctly. Perhaps in the future there will be a Wayland-only GUI library, but I'm not sure why anyone would bother when there exist Wayland backends for the major existing ones.
> Pipewire
I don't use it. I use JACK2 with a PulseAudio fallback for Steam games and other programs that don't know how to hook into JACK.
> - No screen tearing by default
If you're using an AMD graphics card, the TearFree option gives you this. If your distro hasn't enabled it by default, then it's two minutes work, and work that I did years ago.
> - Per-monitor refresh rates
$ xrandr | grep -A2 DisplayPort
DisplayPort-0 connected primary 3840x2160+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 698mm x 393mm
3840x2160 60.00 + 60.00 50.00 59.94 30.00*
2560x1600 59.94
--
DisplayPort-1 connected 1200x1920+3840+0 left (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 546mm x 352mm
1920x1200 59.95*+
1920x1080 60.00 50.00 59.94 59.99
--
DisplayPort-2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-A-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
The rest of your concluding list is just as poorly-informed.
I know what you mean, though I have a device running SteamOS though and it runs extremely smoothly, the latency is no different than my windows PC (on titles where it can achieve the same framerate).
I'm sure that it must be possible to replicate whatever optimisations SteamOS has on other distros, but unfortunately I am not sure what those are exactly.
Ah. Yeah, I play games very much like that (but not those specific ones). I also play rhythm games, which require precise timing.
Like this guy mentions [0], for all but one of the games I've tried, [1] I see comparable or superior performance to Windows.
I'm running AMD hardware, and I'm using KDE without a compositor on Xorg (that is, not on Wayland). I strongly expect that I've successfully disabled KDE's compositor because I seem to get the same performance when I use WindowMaker, which has never had a compositor.
> That's because almost all of the big players in that space
To the OP's point-- there are soooo many games nowadays, that if you and your friend group can skip some of those "big players," there are still hundreds of multiplayer games to play.
> ...which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.
I mean, several of the major anticheats can be configured to work just fine on Linux. [0] It's up to the game dev whether or not it's permitted. So, yeah, unless the game is one where its dev makes huge blog posts about how "advanced" its anti-cheat is (like Valorant or the very latest CoD/Battlefield games) it's quite likely that multiplayer games will work just fine on Linux.
And if they don't, and the faulty game is a new purchase on Steam, then ask for a refund and tell them that the game doesn't work with your OS. Easy, peasy.
[0] I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux. On Linux, I play THE FINALS, Elden Ring, and a couple of other EAC-"protected" games without any troubles. I have perhaps-unreliable memories that at least one of the games I play uses Denuvo, which is only sometimes used as anti-cheat but does use many of the same techniques as kernel-mode anticheat.
> I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux.
That's no secret, but the catch is that the Linux version is much, much easier to bypass. That's why some developers choose not to enable it, or in the case of Apex Legends, enabled it but later backtracked and disabled it again.
> That's why some developers choose not to enable it
That's an excuse. It's mostly incompetence or more often than not the company doesn't think it's worth the effort. With more Linux users, the balance will eventually shift from "fuck them" to "we have to figure out a way".
Now if you do care about quality, having a committed, technical audience giving quality big reports is a godsend. But that's not where we are this decade rife with layoffs and rampant outsourcing in the industry.
You’re posting an argument from 6 years ago. Not including Steam OS, the Linux market share has almost quadrupled since then (to ~3.2%); including Steam OS, it’s up to ~24%. And continues to trend upwards.
You also don’t need to arbitrarily support Linux. It’s not difficult to say “this has only been tested on Fedora, Ubuntu, POP, and SteamOS; other distributions are unsupported officially”.
Most game studios pay someone else to make the anti-cheats and many already have Linux versions that the studios choose to not enable.
Besides, if your anti-cheat only ever looks at the system level, it'll easily be bypassed by hardware cheats. At some point I think anti-cheats will have to "know" the game to be able to detect anomalies. It's the only way to effectively stop many categories of cheats.
Those Linux versions are generally not kernel-level. Do you know of any that are?
And yes, of course it's not fool-proof. It's not supposed to be. It's about probabilities: for a given online game, what is the chance that I end up in a match with someone who is obviously cheating and using that to ruin the game for everyone else? The harder you make cheating, the lower that is.
Oh, it absolutely is; if your product doesn't update its EAC bits regularly then it may as well not use EAC at all. Even still, there are known ways around it.
Even PVP is starting to “just work” via Proton. Arc Raiders runs just fine on Linux and is a strictly PvP game. Over time I think this will be less and less of a problem.
Still has an anti-cheat, they just bothered to allow Linux support.
Companies don't do this out of laziness/incompetence, but even some large anti-cheats work on Linux and some games simply choose to not enable it (cough, Tarkov, cough). Their problem, I'm no longer gonna play games that don't work on Linux.
Funnily enough the best FPS game ever (Counter-Strike) runs absolutely fine on Linux. Thanks Valve!
As far as I know, all the anti-cheat options for Linux are not kernel-level, which means that they are drastically less effective at their intended purpose. That's why so many competitive multiplayer games choose to not enable it.
Its not that they refuse to support the anti-cheat rootkits, its that its really difficult to emulate or abstract kernel level code. If you are using kernel level anti-cheat, you are just asking for trouble all-around.
Personally I just don't use a banking app. The website works fine? I don't like the idea of having to use something from the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store, both companies of which could randomly decide I don't need to exist and cut off my access. ... no thanks? So I don't run "apps" at all. If your business is only available that way, sorry! But "I don't have a smartphone" tends to signal to the receptionist that they'll need to explain the myriad of other ways to do business.
KDE Plasma switched to Wayland by default sometime last year, and so far the main issue I run into is that a few screen recording tools I like stopped working. (Mostly simplescreenrecorder, which seems to be entirely unmaintained at this point.) Other than some initial instability with accelerated rendering on my GPU, which was quickly addressed, it kinda just works. I mostly don't notice.
Actually, GPU acceleration was why I initially switched. For whatever reason, this GPU (Radeon VII) crashes regularly under X11 nearly every time I open a new window, but is perfectly stable under wayland. Really frustrating! So, I had some encouragement, and I was waiting for plasma-wayland to stabilize enough to try it properly. I still have the X11 environment installed as a fallback, just in case, but I haven't needed to actually use it for months.
Minor pain points so far mostly include mouse acceleration curves being different and screen capture being slightly more annoying. Most programs do this OS-level popup and then so many follow that up with their own rectangle select tool after I already did that. I had some issues with sdl2-compat as well, but I'm not sure that was strictly wayland's fault, and it cleared up on its own after a round of updates. (I develop an SDL2 game that needs pretty low latency audio sync to run smoothly)
> Mostly simplescreenrecorder, which seems to be entirely unmaintained at this point
I use it extensively, it's easy to use, UI is compact but clear, works perfectly all the time. I honestly don't care that it is unmaintained at this point.
> KDE Plasma switched to Wayland by default sometime last year, and so far the main issue I run into is that a few screen recording tools I like stopped working. (Mostly simplescreenrecorder, which seems to be entirely unmaintained at this point.) Other than some initial instability with accelerated rendering on my GPU, which was quickly addressed, it kinda just works. I mostly don't notice.
FWIW, I have a KDE Wayland box and OBS works for screen recording. Slightly more complex than simplescreenrecorder, but not bad.
I've been using Kooha, but it's painful in a few ways, not least of which having aggressive compression that can't be disabled. SSR was nice because of the reduced time between "decide to record" to "draw a rectangle, done." OBS works, but is very clunky and cumbersome to reconfigure.
At some point I'll get irritated enough to seek out more alternatives and give them a whirl. Such is fate :)
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