cool thanks for that comment, I might update this in a couple weeks time since it seems to interest people but general feedback that it's too shallow.
Wanted to give some high level intuition I gained after working on document processing for a while now as many people are still surprised that e.g. layouts aren't a real problem anymore but will take the hint that hn is a crowd that wants more depth! :)
Yeah absolutley! Didn't mean for it to come across as snarky, more along the lines of I think this could be a really interesting subject to delve a little bit deeper on and would love to read that!
1.) technically yes, most models used for that task are NLP but not LLMs in the modern sense though
2.) Actually they don't. Multimodal LLMs parse PDFs by taking multiple screenshots on each page.
It's really a shocker to me whenever I see people in obviously difficult situations worry about their productivity. Like is this really what modern life has become? Build whole identities around being productive and doing a good job to an extent that someone who sees a foundation of their life falling apart is feeling guilt about not doing enough for their work.
Employers don’t care. My father died of pancreatic cancer in November 2021. Then in October 2022, my mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. My dad had a business with financial issues I also had to close and take care to. At the same time, I needed to help my mother with medical treatments and moving into a smaller apartment.
Despite these challenges the past two years, I’ve showed up to work consistently and did my best under the circumstances. During my performance review in January, I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can.
To just about any business, unless you have a very close relationship with the owner, you really are just another expense. If they think they're losing more money on you than they're earning and that the benefit won't even be realized later, they will get rid of you. It's horrible and yet I can also see their side. The company needs to at least make enough to keep paying all of its other expenses and it gets hard if a lot of people they keep on have similar issues to you. And some of those similar issues might not even be real. There's people who would see the lenience you're getting and take advantage of that to also get undeserved lenience.
Here's hoping that you are able to keep your job. A poor performance review still leaves a chance to stay. It sounds like at least some of the things that have needed your time and attention are no longer overlapping, which might be enough to be able to satisfy your employer without going into full burnout.
It's like the issue is a whole system of abuse, not individuals and individual companies. The incentives are not aligned with being humane, there's no benefit to actually be human in business apart from showing up on a list as a "great place to work at™", that's the only incentive to put up a humane facade to this faceless monster.
> I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can.
I came here to post specifically about this. I have been there. In the last 1 year, my FIL passed away, grandmother passed away, wife had 2 IVFs and one full-blown miscarriage, Dad was hospitalized for blood sugar spikes, mom was bedridden a few weeks due to blood issues, MIL needed help with property documents and setting up her old age, and my wife's career took a shot because she was a victim of corporate politics.
Notice, I haven't talked about myself because I haven't had time to even think about my own well-being. Am I burned out? Likely. What does my employer (and line manager) care about? Why is a risky service being rolled out slowly and why are other reviewers taking a long time to review code. I get a poor performance feedback for cherry-picked instances, thus creating an environment where perfection is required. Walking on eggshells if you will.
When someone asks what is wrong with American corporate culture, I empathize. America is an immoral, corrupt and exploitative society.
Relatable. I once spent a couple days in hospital because my friend got into an accident. The first day I show up in office my manager calls me into his office, asks how my friend is and then immediately starts grilling me on how I am behind on my work. And this manager was a good _person_ but these companies push you to be less human at times.
Yes, my manager is aware of what I’m dealing with in my personal life. However, it doesn’t seem like that has any bearing on performance reviews. I can easily see how people dealing with situations like this can face burnout.
I'm having similar family issues like are describing. Fortunately my work is very accommodating. They let me WFH and it's ok if I have to leave with no notice to take care of a family emergency.
My company values me as an employee and I value them as an employer. That's how it should be. They're not all horrible out there, but if you find yourself in a horrible place like you are describing, they are not worthy of your hard work.
One of the most gratifying things in work is when you are finally fed up and quit, the surprise on your manager's face, like they never saw it coming.
Can't speak for everyone but my worry for productivity while on the edge of burnout had nothing to do with sacrificing myself for the company. I was worried for my job, that's it. That falling below some unreasonable threshold of work done would get me fired, while realizing I can't keep up with the amount and speed of required work.
Fortunately it was mostly in my head and passive aggressive worked very well in reducing expectations. To a point where I became stressed that I was asked too little. Literally "they" forgot about me for a while. So while enjoying a paycheck for nothing, I realized that cannot last so sadly I became more involved, which lead to more work. At least for the time being I seem to have mastered the screws to throttle productivity and become a classic "do the minimum" loser from the Gervais hierarchy. (Which if you familiar with the concept just means long term sustainable amount and nothing more, nothing less).
It's probably not the same experience for everyone, but when I was burned out or depressed, I "had" to cling to the things I could still have some control. Being productive was the main one. It also would distract me from the other issues. Of course, excessive work was causing most of the issues, now it's easy to see.
I got burned out when I wasn't in a good place. Having the same experience when you have a stable relationship/friendships/family life, healthy hobbies and not-too-limited finances, is probably much different than what I experienced.
Imagine you're about to not be able to work for the next 2 years, perhaps longer. Like no work gets done whatsoever, no job for you, nothing gets fixed around the house. People that are burning out are in this situation and subconsciously realize it. That's why recovery usually starts from a full crash against the wall.
I crashed really hard once. I didn't enjoy my life at all before that, I worked 16 hours/day and it somehow wasn't enough. They just gave me more work to do. The doctor put me on 60mg duloxetine and gave me one week sick leave. I couldn't even buy groceries because my mind was broken so I had no clue how to get back to work. I would get lost in the super market and start crying from the confusion and leave. I stayed home for 3-4 months doing absolutely nothing, and got back to work, working 50% but they just gave me more work until I worked 16 hours a day and I couldn't see any brightness in the future. Spent 3 weeks in a psych ward because I was going to end my life. I had a very sophisticated plan and the doctors said depressed people don't make such plans.
Anyways, in there I fell in love with a broken girl and I suddenly had a future. She was very broken and it hurt me to see her hurt herself all the time. I worked for 1-2 months until I quit and went to the Peruvian Amazon for 4 months and tried traditional medicines. It really changed me, when I came back I got another job and everything was fine for about 8 months until they restructured the company and things got really stressful. I went to bed on friday and when I woke up it was tuesday. Another doctor put me on sick leave again and they prescribed me other pills, but instead I resigned and went back to Peru.
I don't have money but at least I'm sane.
For anyone who read this.. listen to your body and get help before you crash. Take vacations often, don't accept overtime. It's not worth it. You're gonna spend all the money you make on recovery. Change jobs if you have to. Find a therapist.
Yes! Don't neglect vacation time and be sure to take a proper vacation. None of this "I'll be gone but I'm still reachable" bullshit. Lie and say you won't have access to a computer if that's what it takes.
And be sure the vacation is long enough. 2 weeks straight is probably the optimal balance between practicality and relaxability. Though in many cases you may be capped at 1 week straight, but that is still far better than no break at all.
I'd say 3 weeks or more if possible. Where do they cap it to 1 week? In Sweden the employer has to allow you 4 weeks of uninterrupted vacation during the summer months.
Heh, one time I asked for vacation 6 months in advance. My girlfriend had planned everything, booked all the hotels etc. And one week before the vacation they said I couldn't go because everyone who wasn't fired had quit and I was the only developer they had. In the end they agreed that I could go if I brought my work laptop and had my phone on 24/7. This was about 2 weeks after I had been on my first stress related sick leave. I got a panic attack at work and ended up at the psychiatric emergency where they told me to stay home 2 weeks and that I needed antidepressants (to which my response was "I don't need any f*cking pills, I need more consultants!!" but they couldn't help me with that. I stayed home 1 week staring into the ceiling before going back to work. I was going on vacation soon anyways so I thought I could endure 1 week more.
Had a hard time disconnecting during that vacation.
One doctor recommended me a 4 month vacation and told me "go to India or Peru and do something completely different" and I quit my job and did just that. Should have done that earlier.
(Sorry for the late response, I hadn't checked my replies all week)
Companies in the US can put limits on consecutive vacation days. Both jobs I've had in the financial industry had a limit of 7 business days. While not impossible to go beyond that, it ends up needing approval that goes higher up than your manager.
I'm sure some industries provide more flexibility on consecutive days off, but if they do it's likely because workers don't even have enough days to take much more than that off. According to Forbes[1] the average number of vacation days an employee in the US gets is 11. That average moves to 15 after working at the same place for 5 years. Even though 15 days is enough to take 3 weeks straight, it would be a terrible idea to use all vacation days in one shot. A year is a long time. You're certainly going to be needing another break before a full 12 months has elapsed.
I only managed to stay afloat because I could still work retail, but mentally I was completely checked out for over a year. My physical 'candle' was the only thing I had left to burn, but as a disabled person, doing this sucks sometimes.
It's this or homelessness and no treatment, though.
Some people definitely do fixate (and derive a sense of purpose, whether that's good or not) from perpetual productivity improvement – I think this is why online productivity and life hack gurus are so popular.
But for some, it's all about looking like they care about productivity because that's what their job or manager expects. Certainly this was the case for me. Throughout my twenties, I pushed myself to be more "productive" in my career because I thought I had to look like a go-getter to the people who paid me. I put in extra hours and effort, and even enrolled in an online university course to further expand my skills (resulting in me having next to zero free time!).
I still like to work hard and do good work, but I no longer push myself to be very good at everything I do. "Competent" is my aim. Doing my paid work to a standard that is "good enough" is not only easier on my stress levels, but my managers continue to report satisfaction with my work.
i ask the same question of myself. i haven't experienced a burnout before so that i needed to take a break to recover. i guess it's because i never allowed myself to be dragged to the point of burning out. i have a partner, family, and friends i love who need me to be when they need me. so my simple guide to no is whether any activity compromises my ability to be there for them. i'm very aware of the reality that nothing i do in tech, especially at a company, will be remembered 10 years from now (when even the company and its founders may be forgotten in 30 years or so). that really simplifies a lot for me: would i rather grind on this technology thing or spend time listening to my little brother goof around? play with my nieces? be in the presence of my parents? they're the ones who know who i am, in fact. no a mass of faceless internet souls (however gentle or kind they may be). to hell with overworking ourselves until burnout!
Acute stress messes with your ability to prioritize well. When you're burnt out, that effect can linger even when you've no reason to be stressed. It can frequently manifest as worrying about small stuff in the presence of a much bigger problem.
