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I thought, "gosh, that seems at least marginally useless; why wouldn't that short circuit?" and then just tried it. I tried a few variations, and about the only use I can think of is to signal as a side effect for when the dict is made.

Fun trick to learn exists. Though I would really like to know what led up to it, since it seems ... unhelpful.

Edit: Looking at other comments, I did try popping off that entry in the dict, and no, it didn't have anything in it (it doesn't make the dict anything like defaultdict).


As far as I know there is no native mechanism for short circuiting in Python. So anything that short-circuits should be considered a special case.


Binary operations will do it, like in `True or foo()`, but there's no real lazy evaluation machinery for parameters to a function. (Yet? I bet someone's working on it... at least I haven't tried any packages like lazypy for it.)


What impact does this sort of compromise cause? In context, it seems to be a poorly architected loopback to make an appliance gizmo work. So on the face of it, it sorta seems a bit harmless (well, as much as any internet appliance is harmless...)

I'd imagine that could allow an adversary to compromise DRM for the SKY perhaps? (Based on the domain name.) But there seemed to also be concern that improperly set up cookies for other cisco.com domains may allow this to compromise them; do Cisco devices put sensitive things in cookies where that could happen?

EDIT: I am not in any way, shape, or form a network or security 'guy'. I just read the thread and wasn't horribly alarmed by the discussion; seems like a reasonable but bad exposure on the device.


At a glance, cisco.com has an SSO cookie set for .cisco.com, so given an attacker is on your LAN, they could have used this cert to MITM your connection to drmlocal.cisco.com and insert a script to steal your cisco SSO cookie. That would give the attacker to your cisco account (I have no idea what a cisco account actually entails).


I didn't have an intuition for this, so I took a shot in the dark as a baseline. Wolfram Alpha suggests that the Golden Gate bridge was about $350M in modern money, and given length and height, I'd say they're pretty comparable. They're both within probably $25M of what you'd sort of expect of each other, with the Golden Gate being a little longer (0.3 miles) and the one you're referencing is much lower (GG is 120m higher).

Now, I'd guess there's some debate if the Golden Gate was worth it, but I think in the long run these sorts of things define regions and become essential.

EDIT: Noting I already did the 1930s money conversion.


it worth 350M in modern money does not mean you can build it today with 350M.


To be sure - and in fact people seem to debate the idea that the same bridge would even be built at all these days. It was apparently quite the political undertaking.


It's the barrier point that we can't haul it out of the ground as fast as demand requires. It's sort of like how people were concerned we were going to hit peak food: we very well could, but we need a lot more people to hit that point.

There is also a finite amount of oil in the ground. It's stupendously useful and rich in chemistry. We still don't know where all the reserves are, and there is a lot of oil still in the ground. But that oil comes at a cost: inconvenient, excessively deep, politically untenable. But we'll be able to get oil for a long time (just at ever increasing costs).


There are other methods, I think. At least one guy I back does it based on a per-comic basis. Granted, the comics are big and usually go longer than a month, but it's pretty good, I think. Takes some of the 'gotta-deliver-constantly' off him, and it only charges what is delivered.

Which may just be an open pre-order on my part. Which is sort of the stupidest way to buy anything, I suppose, except for the social trust aspect I have in him.


And it's a shame, because there really isn't a reason not to do both. After all, we are spending millions on both.

I really love the story about Norman Borlaug [0], because it shows how these great advances can be from enormous work from unexpected places. His research and testing - over decades - saved so many lives (he earned the title "The Man Who Saved a Billion Lives", and it may not be an exaggeration).

I vaguely recall the econ nobel a few years ago studied how people starved with food rotting in enormous piles just a few dozen miles away. It's utterly heartbreaking, and the worst is that it was largely bad policy that did it. We already overproduce food enough, but we can't get it where it needs to be.

Now, though, imagine that we find a way to mine asteroids for rare earth minerals. Imagine we can have clean power without the horrific pollution as industrial infrastructure ramps up. How could that change the world, leading to logistics networks that could fix distribution issues?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

EDIT: terminology, and I'd like to disclaim about the strife problem: space can't really fix. But food and money can't either.


I think if we're going to be fair, it's more accurate to say it's totally, unequivocally overdue. Large chucks are flat out late. But! That is fine. We can forgive a late game if it's good, and it looks to be awesome. Optimism invariably takes over at the start of project, and we all knew it was going to be a long haul.

And I say that as a person with a few ships awaiting release, too. While I really want my Carrack, it's far more important that they make it good. The estimated release times have moved back a few time, but that's the expense of great work in the rest of the game. Backers seem to largely accept this as the cost of buying into an in-progress development: priorities must be fluid, and we have to make do.

The trick to Kickstarter is to only invest what you can lose (like anything!) and then be patient. Starcitizen is stupendously ambitious, and is going to cost a fortune to develop. They successfully made the transistion to being nearly self-sustained, basically using Kickstarter to kickstart their development process.


The original goal didn't include any of the massive stretch goals that were added in as funding ballooned. CR has been completely forthright about the schedule as the stretch goals have been designed and built. It's not overdue because nobody is expecting it to be finished right now except Derek Smart, arguably the world's shittiest game designer. Saying it's "totally, unequivocally overdue" because we've passed the original planned release date in November of 2012 on the Kickstarter page is totally, unequivocally disingenuous.


There was another release date 2016. Passed that too. Now there is this Vulcan thing. Meanwhile the full game universe is nowhere to be seen. They have now given up setting a release date at all.

I don't understand where the community gets all that positive vibes from but I've lost it and yes....I invested too.


I maintain positivity because it's not vaporware, just in feature hell. There's no silver bullet for that, just metric crap-tonnes of lead bullets, as they say.

And expectations are everything. I had endless hours of fun with Privateer as a kid, and had a blast with Freelancer when I was older. That covers a large chunk of my life, so my patience is tempered, a bit. Eve fills the niche while I wait, and I'm very excited to see my old memories come back in HD in a new universe. What's another 5 years out of 25? (And I'm serious - I had fun with Privateer, and in retrospect it was kinda terrible! Pushing past the uncanny valley of VR sim is effort worth waiting for!)

Honestly? Expectations are screwy. Eve has a sophisticated character creation system, and it's essentially to take a 200x200 pixel picture. Just fantastic, and almost as useless. But it really makes the game feel bigger and more real. Eve's taken more than 15 years to get to where it is, and that's sort of where I hold my standard. Time ain't the barrier to me.


We share our experience in the past but I must disagree on eve. Eves development is comparable to the one of WoW where it was nice to play in the early stages and only if you look back now, it looks terrible. Eve grew on something that was fabulous back then already. I know...I was hooked.

What we have with SC now is the shattered result of all those terrible management decisions and a CEO who does not take the critics serious (probably also because of this one popular "critics" criticism). I'm not sure if anything good can grow from this but I'm pretty sure some huge changes in management could help out here to at least get a clear and realistic target.

They owe it to the backers even if the loudest of them don't care. This is a project which will be an example for others. Future will show what kind of example...


You've got some kind of axe to grind and it's showing through in every one of your posts here. You haven't played the game, you have said a bunch of stuff that are outright lies, and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't reconcile with reality.


And you are part of the religion. That's why your criticism is pointed and the critic and your glorification leave the realm of reality. Even now?


Do you actually read the emails and participate in testing? I am not even an evocatus tester and I can play in the persistent universe. I think you're thinking about the fact that -- before the final game launches -- there will be a universe reset. But what you've just said here is not true. [0]

[0] https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/for...


Are you talking about this?

> Please note: Even though we call it the ‘Live’ service, it’s still very much in the Alpha stage of development, and there are tons of features and optimizations to be added. Players on the ‘Live’ service are very much testers, too!

We are talking about 130 million dollar. A hill of mismanagement, ideas stacked on ideas and Spawn offs to keep the hype running. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are talking about. This game is the peek of that new Alpha Game wave that is flooding steam for example. It's like now everybody wants to be like SZ. Greenlight some rough concepts, ???, profit/cancel.

This game is a terrible example for others.


Okay, so you've played the game and enjoy it immensely and think it's one of the best things to come along in years. You think it will serve as a fantastic example of the future of game development. I'm not sure what SZ is but you have such a high opinion of it that I might check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.


...and with that your desperate attempts reach a all time low. Have a nice day.


I guess I just don't see the stretch goals as bonus wins. They caused the whole game to be rethought and redesigned. They're integral to what the game is expected to be and have driven the ambition to make the game better. And again, even if we look at the components individually, many are still late from the times they were estimated to be released. And I wasn't being disengenous: I'm talking about simply the Carrack, the part I'm most excited about. But CIG's gotten good about not promising dates anymore, a lesson every Kickstarter and development group should learn!

My point is that lateness isn't the sin people make it out to be. A well polished and expansive game can come late, and so long as the medium still does it justice it'll be great. All the gnashing of teeth and whining will be forgotten as people play fun. Setting expectations for deliverables is far better than expectation for delivery times, since you can miss deadlines while still delivering (leaving you with a lose-win pattern). And it's better to set expectations realistically rather than disappoint, because then at best you can deliver disappointment on time. SC has some damn good pedigree, so I think it's easy to believe they'll deliver on quality and expectation, and that overrides everything else.

I was thrilled about NMS (and had a blast with it), and I think it panned a bit because it rushed. There was some noise that warped expectations, and yet the game became just what it set out to be. Further updeates made it even more fun to play, and to quote Day9 "I will play the shit out of No Man's Sky 2." Heck, we even have celebrated failures like VoxelQuest, which is one of my favorite KickStarter epics. Obduction was just what I expected from Cyan. And I'm honestly kinda excited to see if Hiveswap manages to deliver despite hype. Broken Age was a bit bizzare, since it actually probably would have been better if it stopped in the middle (but still a lot of fun). We live in such a golden age of choice it's possible that Dual Universe will be good!

Imagine having NMS, SC, and DU all with their own take on a large persistent universe - pick the style you like! I'll happily wait years to see that, and we can usually play them before they're done, which takes the sting out of waiting I think.


I think it's facinating that we are likely moving to cars with limited speed (driverless controls), and that we have tried banning booze.

At least banning alchohol as a constitutional ammendment was rather ineffective and led to some wild crime and an eventual repeal. On the face of it, though, it's an interesting social experiement whose outcome probably wasn't very obvious at the time. At least to the proponents.

The guns though? I'm not at all sure how America could even try banning that. Perhaps we just need to look to another country to see how that affected society. It also has that awkward bootstrapping problem: how do you take the guns from the people? They're by definition armed, after all...


I think this is sorta on the nose, but I would rephrase it as "Do we have a right to not be subjected to medical procedures?"

And the answer to that seems to be fairly strongly in the affirmative. I imagine we will be approaching a more nuanced legal view of such things in the near future as we battle to understand where rights really stand. (Much like many of our rights, there are exceptional situations - like the oft quoted yelling "FIRE!" in a movie theater - and perhaps vaccinations should be treated similarly.)

EDIT - I was pointed to some interesting CDC info below, and there is an interesting scenario possible: make measels a quarantinable disease. This would become a choice with teeth. Choose to vaccinate, or risk isolation. Thankfully, the CDC seems like a fairly serious outfit, and I'm not worried about abuse of power in this way, but it does rephrase the topic a bit.


Quarantine laws exist for a reason.


I had never looked it up, and it seems the CDC (unsurprisingly) is involved in applying these laws.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantin...

From that site, it seems that isolation and quarantine is largely done at borders between states and country. It's also very serious, and it's not something the CDC takes lightly: the last major enforcement of the rule was in 1918 for the Spanish Flu (though it cites there were other minor applications - the ebola scare last year may be one small instance of that).

In context of this, I would imagine that measles would need to be added to the list of diseases quarantine is enforced (I haven't spotted this list yet).

EDIT: found the important list, and it mentions specifically measels are NOT on the list:

  The list of quarantinable diseases is contained in an 
  Executive Order of the President and includes cholera, 
  diphtheria, infectious tuberculosis, plague, smallpox, 
  yellow fever, viral hemorrhagic fevers (such as Marburg, 
  Ebola, and Congo-Crimean), and severe acute respiratory 
  syndromes.
  
  Many other illnesses of public health signficance, such as 
  measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox, are not 
  contained in the list of quarantinable illnesses, but 
  continue to pose a health risk to the public. Quarantine 
  Station personnel respond to reports of ill travelers 
  aboard airplanes, ships, and at land border crossings to 
  make an assessment of the public health risk and initiate 
  an appropriate response.

One of the executive orders is linked in that list: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-04-09/pdf/03-8832.pdf


I don't think it's a dangerous precedent, in the sense that precedent happened a long, long time ago. These sorts of diseases are horrific, and quarantine is usually applied with extreme predjudice. Quarantine is no joke, and is a last line of defense.

That said, quarantine might be overkill. But isolation really is a valid solution. It's just awful. But refusing vaccination is also awful, since it can lead to far more brutal suffering than the inconvenience of uprooting one's home.

Honestly it's just a crap situation, where each solution that isn't vaccination is just a measure of weighing the ultimate amount of suffering and choosing the least bad.


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