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You described a process that did not happen in this video.

> HN is deliberately not that, or at least it aims to not be that

Is this a joke? I don't think anyone in this thread is half as angry as people get about React or Cloudflare


> On the other hand, I'm a dev, and I hate the "start a discussion first" gatekeeping

Seems like a completely appropriate way to handle things if you're still on Github. You said yourself the spam drove you off.

They could let people who are proven not to be spammers open PRs directly.


> You said yourself the spam drove you off.

Yes, indeed. But I still stand by the gatekeeping though.

Sadly, it's a tragedy due to how popular github (and similar services) have become.

These sites were supposed to be by developers for developers.


> demonic influence

Is this an unironic usage of this word? If you're trying to make a different point, it doesn't come across.

> You've highlighted a very real equivalency in spite of yourself

The equivalence doesn't help you, because "possessed by demons" has been used to describe people who are sick, playing D&D, reading comics, listening to music, being women, and it is frivolous and embarrassing to take seriously.


> It won't turn most people into architects. It will turn them into PMs

That sounds awful. Every PM I've ever met, I did their job for them. They did nothing. And I've met some heavy hitter PMs with a lot of stripes and recommendations.

The job of being a PM is over-exaggerated. It boils down to writing things down and bringing them up later. Something I ended up doing for them, because they didn't know enough to know what to write down. Their skills are interviewing well and drinking beers with important people.

So what you said is a dreadful future, if true.

And side note, my last PM didn't even take notes, he had AI do it for him. They were always wrong. I had to correct them constantly.


You've described PMs running circles around you and you still can't see it. They didn't need to praise you or pressure you. They seem to have all caught on that your button is let you feel smarter than them. You did their job, did a bunch of physical typing they would otherwise have to do themselves, and walked away thinking you won.

Meanwhile they're pulling the same or greater comp, working half the hours, and "drinking beers with important people" is an accepted part of their job. The status hierarchy you're describing where they suck isn't real. It's a useful fiction that keeps you grinding while they harvested your output.

Everyone becoming a PM is a good thing precisely because PMs don't work as hard. Wouldn't a job be more pleasant if you could meet expectations by lunch? Imagine how psychologically freeing that would be. Dreadful future my ass.


Considering every time they left not a single thing changed, as though they were never there, because I was the one actually organizing the projects, I doubt they were running circles around me. Likely dicking around with Jira for 5 hours to siphon money from our company instead of actually organizing the project.

> Meanwhile they're pulling the same or greater comp, working half the hours, and "drinking beers with important people" is an accepted part of their job

You took the words right out of my mouth. Almost like it's a made up job and not the real work that needs to get done.


That doesn't contradict anything they wrote.

To be fair all they wrote was just a rant based on some very unsubstantiated claims, I think the burden of proof is on them a little bit

I'm not against the spirit of what you're saying, but are you aware the show itself made a meta episode about how comical it was that Homer could live in a house like that? That was never meant to be a reflection of current living conditions. That show is not the best example of what you're describing.

https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8?t=29


With that said, that episode is from the 8th season in a time where things were already becoming more unaffordable. The time between the episodes explains why this episode exists.

Homes became more affordable from 1989-1996. So I don't think they were retroactively saying "this isn't affordable anymore."

To be clear, I agree that houses are way less affordable now, which was the point of this thread. I just don't think fictional TV is a good reference point for that. They famously exaggerate the spaces people live in so they can film better angles or block different scenes. See "Friends"


This is so perfect. I just love that they can make fun of themselves and that you can remember such a reference from decades ago.

> I always have to go back to read this part again because I feel like it's so unexpected. You don't really hear anyone saying quite the same thing today

The landscape has completely changed. No authority in charge entertains the idea that the law should be respected, it's not surprising citizens reciprocate.


In your post history you say you have never programmed. Why are you so sure it produces code of value?

This is so prohibitively expensive in its wastefulness that blithely telling strangers to try the tools likely means you either haven't tried it, or have money to burn.


As a non Elm lover, Why is that? I think you could freeze every JS frontend framework in time right now and use them for the next decade. JS is very backwards compatible.

It's the ones that do some kind of server connection that introduce vulnerabilities and need active development.


It's stuck in time, has no support, only core devs can expose newer DOM apis (and when I say newer I mean released in the last 6/7 years). Very hard to hire for, not LLM friendly.

I guess if every piece of tech you learn is about finding a job or using LLMs that might matter.

But again, I don't think no support matters. How many DOM apis do you know of in the last 10 years that are essential? There are sites on JQuery 2 running fine.


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